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Pointless Wins


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Nexus
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Pointless Wins

I wanted to ask people for their opinion on something in regard to the recent anhihilator event.

There seems to be a difference of opinion in regard to the second last match of the weekend.

I had assumed because i moved on to the the final match that i get the point for it but the Kheeros dont think i do. But at the same time i get points for coming second on the Day. It seems like a big contradiction.

At the end of the Day its the Kheeros site and they can put anything they like on it but I would like to ask for a second opinion or two just so I know what is right and wrong regardless of the Kheeros points system.

Pinscher was in the Last fight with Mini-Miower but apparently doesnt deserve a point for getting there. What does anybody think about this?, do people agree?

If you move on to the next round should you get a point for it? regardless of what you did in the match.

There where matches where robots did nothing and moved on and got points.

I am just asking for thoughts on this as i find it hard to see their logic on this.
If 2 people agree with the Kheeros I wont bring this up again but I would like to know what people think anyway, might help situations in the future.

Pinscher had byes on both days of the comp (what are the odds of that)
and apparently is the only robot that moved up a level without getting a point for moving up a level.

Can people please tell me what they think of this. Is this how it should work?

Not here to bite anyones head off just would like to hear from others on this topic.
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Post Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:24 pm 
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chrisjon65
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Confused i dont follow what you mean about points ????
no one was awarded points ,there was a winner and a loser thats it ....
if both were moving at the end ,the judges made the decisions
i had byes on both days as well and that was due to robots not being able to compete due to technical problems .but when there are 25 bots and little time ,quick on the spot choices need to be made and were . pleasing some and not others Wink
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Post Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:23 pm 
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Glen
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hmmm not 100% on what your trying to say but ill have a go at answering it anywho.


quote:
Pinscher was in the Last fight with Mini-Miower but apparently doesnt deserve a point for getting there. What does anybody think about this?, do people agree?



not sure if your refering to the keros ranking system (which is a trivial novelty as they have said) or our scoring system, but i know we give out points for 1st, 2nd and 3rd. so i guess i agree as you get a point for getting 2nd...


quote:
Pinscher had byes on both days of the comp (what are the odds of that)
and apparently is the only robot that moved up a level without getting a point for moving up a level.


honest luck of the draw really. you probably should have been shuffled around the next day so someone else got a go (lachlan probably didnt pick up on that..). dont really have a definite opinion on giving points for byes, as you dont fight yet still move up. luck of the draw in that regard as well i thinks.

btw what are your suggestions for the next annihilator, you seem to have the most ideas regarding the scoring and battle arrangements.
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Post Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:28 pm 
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chrisjon65
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where is this ranking system ??? i couldnt find it on their site Very Happy
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Post Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:42 pm 
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Nexus
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Sorry for being unclear and sorry for having a bitch.

Was about to delete this post but people replied so quickly should explain myself.

Its in regard to the Kheeros point system and I know I shoud not take it serioulsy but I was in a just in a bad mood and obviously just let off some steam.

Its basically because they feel that Pinscher got into the final game by default and doesnt get a win point in their rankings for it. Thats all, its a pissy little nothing that i took to heart.

I dont think my robot won that match anyway, I just assumed but that for proceding to the next level gives you the win point but hey, just took it tooooo seriously and sorry again. Hopefully Brett will delete this post
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Post Mon Sep 06, 2004 6:58 pm 
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kkeerroo
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Sorry.

I'm guessing that this is the fight with Pinscher, El Bravo, Mini Mower and Arachnophobia. I remember the huge dicussion about this after the fight with everyone crowded around the TV's watching the re-runs of the fight arguring about the judges decision. Well during the talk I was chatting with Lindsy about the fight I was saying about how El Bravo was still moving, even though only just, and was therefore still mobile, and who was most aggresive and so on. Lindsy was saying that he agreed with me and thats what he based he's choice on. Now I must point out I was talking to Lindsy after the decision that El Bravo and Mini Mower won was made. But it seemed that half the crowd wanted Pinscher to go through and thats why we had all the replay's.
But El Bravo had battery problems and pulled out of the final and Pinscher took its place.

Soooo, for my points thing I was going on about giving points for wins rather then giving points for going onto the next round. I know its really unfair not matter which way you look at it, but I was just curious about putting all the robots on a table to compare them.
Its lucky I still havn't tried the points system I dreamt up last year.
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Post Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:33 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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If I remember correctly, this was one of the fights that I growled about the judges decision a lot. Mad

El Bravo was still barely moving at the end, but could only limp around in slow circles, which in any competition in the world would count as being immobilised. Controlled non-circular motion generally being the requirement for "still alive". - I notice in one of the recent marayong fights Jeff was doing a great job of keeping El Bravo moving in non-circular motions with just one side of the drive working. This sort of driving is what is required to be counted as still alive.

I guess the problem discussed in this thread was caused by allowing Pinscher to take El Bravo's place after he forfeited his place in the final due to not being able to repair the damage in time. A noble gesture on jeffs part, but the resulting final battle was then not really run according to the rules, which is what caused the problem George referred to in the Keroo's tables.

If El-Bravo was judged to have won the prior fight (and not Pinscher - thus missing out on the "win" point), but El-Bravo then forfeited, then Minimower should have won the final by default since his scheduled opponent was a no-show. Placing a judged-losing bot from the previous round in the winning bots place is what caused the discrepancy. Of course no-one would have wanted to see the final round being a bye, so I can understand why it was done.

It does however illustrate the sort of problems caused when you fail to stick to the rules and "adjust things on the fly" to keep the show interesting. Its something that all Event Operators need to keep in mind. If you are running a friendly back-yard event between friends and keeping the results to yourselves, then its OK to fiddle the structure a bit. If however, you are running a semi-serious competition with interstate entrants or plan on publishing the results for all to see, then its much better to stick to the letter of the law or risk the possibility of disputes arising when rankings and points are assigned.

(if George feels that this discussion has no particular value and no-one else objects, then I can delete the thread.. I think it has some value in demonstrating why fudging the brackets shouldnt be done, but wont keep it here just based on my opinion - Does anyone else think it should be left online ?)
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Post Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:45 pm 
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Bort
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I know you had the discussion with Lindsay, but I will confirm it anyway.
Yes the decision was made that El Bravo and Pinscher were the winners of that match. Just as you stated. Since El B couldn't go through Pinscher did.

So yeah it's like you said, do you base it on wins or on progression? I'd have to say wins too. But that my opinion.

Post Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:51 pm 
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Nexus
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I would rather have been a convincing third than a questionable second. Theres no fun in winning when people are booing. Was never comfortable in that last match but the show has to go on, doesnt it. It was still a good event in hindsight and everyone did a great job.

In regard to wins versus progression to get points theres a big flaw in that argument, probably more so in an Anhihilator.

I dont agree because, in the structure of the Anhililator, it was an elimination process so in some rounds robots got eliminated so quickly that in some cases a robot that didnt have to do anything, got the win point and progressed so they won because someone else got flipped or something.

They didnt have to do anything so saying its on performance or a win is not accurate. It seemed more of a survival situation.

It seems to me that robots progressed and got a point in the Anhihilator, some didnt really have to win the fight to get the win, they just had to progress to get the win.

Starting to sound like the chicken and the egg.

Something to think about

I dont mind if you want to leave this post up if it serves a purpose. Its your call Brett.
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Post Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:36 pm 
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