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Exhibition Class
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Daniel Marshall
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Exhibition Class

Hi all,
I'm starting this topic to get some feed back from you all on a new robot circuit in the planing.
I'ts aimed at small one to two hour shows, call it an Exhibition Class for now.
The idea is this.
We hold an event aimed at pure entertainment. The robots are hand picked. We will have commentary, promo girls, whatever enhances a good event.
We could use the 3 minute rounds still, but have some introduction of the builders and there bots.
Another idea would be to have a sumo or smash comp as half time entertainmant.
of course there would be money to. From ticket sales, DVD's etc.
As far as I know, there is no other event like this in the world.
Your thoughts?
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Post Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:06 pm 
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Bort
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And by hand picked robots you mean what?

Will it be like "Pro-wrestling" where there will be an intended winner? Or will it still be fight to the end kind of thing?

Or does it mean no boring wedges kind of thing?

Post Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:17 pm 
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Nick
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Sounds like Battlebots with babes Laughing The pro-wrestling format isn't a bad formula if you just want to do entertainment and not run a competition, but then there isn't much incentive for the builders unless there is quite a bit of cash around.
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Post Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:27 pm 
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Valen
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If your willing to pony up the dough for the parts people would build it for the joy of it though.
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Post Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:29 pm 
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Bort
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Still not sure if it is staged until Daniel replies, however if it was staged you could build specific robots that are designed to get exploded with little cost to repair and match them against exciting damaging bots.

The benefit to this is that it allows maximum entertainment but doesnt spoil the "purity" of real competition (such as house robots, pits, arena hazards would do in normal competition).

I guess in the end we just want to know more about what you had in mind. Although im guessing you're still in the brain storming stage. One thing i would like to know is what the motivation for all these changes down in Vic is at the moment?

Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:37 am 
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NMO
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Bort,

The exhibition class as far as Danny has explained it to me is staged to the point of selecting which robot would face which other robot, not to the point of saying you hit me, then I hit you, then you break. These events may not be judged in the same way as a normal comp, (maybe the crowd would select the winner) and the purpose is crowd enjoyment not a fair comp. As such I doubt that we would ever post results etc or anything like that for rankings purpose. We have also talked about ways of making robots fail for the crowd ie smoke etc. but I think it would be difficult to make those methods work without letting the crowd know we had intended it to be that way.

As far as all the changes. I guess it never hurts to try new things. We're trying a few different competitions styles, judging styles etc to find the one that best suits us.

Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:07 am 
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Daniel Marshall
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You're right, it's still in the brain storming stage.
having said that I do have a bit of an idea on the event layout.
I think there will be an intended winner.
If the fights are predetermined it would allow us to predict a number of things like time, entertainment factor and cost. also I would like to keep this completely separate from the Australian circuit in as many ways as I can for the reasons you mentioned.
So yes this means no wedges, unless there is a plan for them Wink

There would be money for the builders. how much, I wont know for sure until we begin, though if we charge what it cost for a movie ticket say $13 each and get in 300+ like I did in Rye (Junk Yard Arena) we could divvy the earnings and make it very worthwhile.

We would start by hiring a school hall, advertising in the school and local papers, and using there facilities for the show.

I thought we might even make a weekend of it and have a tournament during the day, having an all access pass available to people.

To answer Bort on the changes question, the Robowars event is the same, we have tried a few different things at the last event, some worked, some didn't, but this new Exhibition Class idea is only coming to surface now because we have a new fully portable arena.
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Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:18 am 
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Knightrous
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I smell a sudden revival of the MDF bots Jake drummed up for a while Razz Explosive and cheap!

Non-Spinner comp?
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Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:59 am 
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Daniel
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Predetermined fights? I won't be going to those events.

Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:02 am 
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Daniel Marshall
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Please, if you're not sure on the idea I would love to know your thoughts on it.
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Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:51 am 
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Daniel
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If I build a robot I don't want someone telling me I have to loose the next fight. I build because I think I have a chance of winning, even if I do stupid things like plug in the wrong batteries or forget to attach the weapon. If I turn up and get told exactly how my fights will go before we start it ruins all the effort in designing the robot in the first place.

Also once someone screws up, which will happen very quickly, and a fight can easily be seen as being faked the audiance will walk away thinking that every compitition, including Robowars, are being faked. People will start thinking that Combat Robots are just like wrestling and they will never treat us seaously.

By all means you can ban boring robots, make it an invataion only event or rig the draw, but you should never rig a fight.
Actually here's the best excuse why. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nMt27Wp0UgE

Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:47 pm 
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Bort
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Daniel K: Assuming i get what you're implying by that video, I think that's a whole different story/argument.

This proposal would see the robots do more than nudge each other. It would more than likely see robots completely devoured, at least on the exterior until they transplant the inards into another bot.

All: What i think would work well is if builders could have two robots. One their sacrificial but cool looking robot, the other their crowd pleasing robot. In then end this would make it no different to Robotwars UK. How many robots qualified that could barely move and little armour? Then if a robot dropped out, a reserve robot that was twice as good seems to come in. The organisers intentionally threw in a few goats to the T-Rex for entertainment value.

I wouldn't see a problem with intended winners. If by chance the other robot wins (or wins in the crowd opinion) then just go along with it. Also a prolonged draw would work better than round robin or double elim. By that i mean just like the wrestling, you say that this robot is up against this one this week, with no real correlation in who is fighting who. I guess its more sort of no draw. If occasionally two "good" robots want to have at it for a title then put on one of those matches.

However Daniel K raises a good point about the possibility of reducing the believability of the real combat. Or at the very least making it less appealling. I know when I used to watch Robowars before becoming a bot builder, that the more carnage the better the match was. However now i can enjoy the tactics and suspense of less "exciting" matches.

I guess this kind of idea appeals to me in a way. Maybe its because building robots out of junk that looks cool but are no chance against finely tuned destroying machines (cough Jolt) is what Lindsay and I have done previously. Where as I have tried to move away from it in the hope of building something more competitive, I have realised that more money and better materials doesn't always translate into wins. I must admit that the most enjoyable(and quickest) robots that I've built were the ones out of junk.

Interestingly we haven't heard anything from people who have previously espoused the idea of jazzing the sport up, or making it more about pleasing the crowd.

Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:13 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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I'm being a bit quiet at the moment, since I'm both busy with work, still not feeling the best, and interested to see what everyone elses opinion is.. Smile

I think the idea of an additional exhibition class is a good one for public events - figuring out what rules or financial inducements would encourage people to build for it is the trick

The only thing that seems clear to me at this point is that the idea of a "knockout win" has to be eliminated in such a class to encourage full duration fights.

Probably need to put in something about flippers as well or it will turn into an acrobatics competition Smile

Looking on the bright side, it could be just the spot for flame throwers, walkers, clamp/control bots and all the unusual designs that once flourished but just arent competitive today when faced up against a high energy brick or scissors.
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Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:33 pm 
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Bort
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Brett: How come you think the knockout win should be eliminated? Do you mean if the robot is "technically" immobilised but still has limited movement? Or just no knockouts generally?

Because I think some 1 minute matches are more interesting than other 3 minute ones involving similar outcomes. I agree a 10 second match is usually a big let down, but a robot that separates the other in around a minute is still a good match compared to both robots still moving at the end.

Getting the crowd involved in the decision is good too, but they dont have to determine the outcome of every match.

Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:53 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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OK, I misworded that.

What I meant is that an exhibition class is designed to be visually appealing and keep spectators happy in between "unrestricted" combat rounds, so quick-kill knockout-capable bots should be discouraged in that class.

Quite the opposite to a normal fight, where a quick knockout is the best way to win the competition, but bad for the show.

Saws rather than KE Spinners, Flippers rather than Launchers, Flame Throwers rather than Undercutters - or something like that anyway..

like I said, its hard to define in written rules because what exhibition is about is the competitors working together rather than opposition and having an understanding that in this class the idea is to do something entertaining for 3 minutes rather than disable your opponent as quickly as possible -

So its not going to be easy to write a rule that says "you cant do this" and still have people trying to push the edge of what they *can* do to kill the compeitition quickly.

In an exhibition class, killing the opponent quickly would be a "bad thing" - it would be better to pick them up and carry them around (Sproing), roll them over (Stealth) , or throwing sparks with saw cuts (like Scoopy) rather than bouncing them off the ceiling (Marauder), Disintegrating them with KE (jolt), or chopping wheels off (IG3)

Perhaps assign points in a fashion like Battlebots used to pretend they did ? with flips, slams, rams getting points.. maybe you get a certain # of points for every 30 seconds your robot is active, agressive & mobile in the arena ? and maybe go so far as to actually deduct points for knockout blows in anything other than the last 30 seconds of the fight ?

Then at the end of competition, total up the points - highest cumulative score wins.

That way theres incentive for the builders to keep their exhibition bots turning over and get them back into the arena and fighting at every opportunity - ensuring there would always be exhibition class robots lined up just waiting for an opportunity to get in there and score some points - which would make it much easier for the EO to keep a good show going.

Encourages lots of "arena-time" and driving for the competitors as well

Again, just ideas off the top of my head - cooperation rather than competition is the key thought to keep in mind for this class though.
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Post Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:29 pm 
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