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Possible idea for No Spinner/Walker class
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Spockie-Tech
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Possible idea for No Spinner/Walker class

This is just off the top of my head, so feel free to shoot it down if Ive overlooked something stupid.

Does the idea of a No-Spinner/(peusdo)Walker *only* class appeal to people ?

I know most walkers are just disguised cams, with the wheels being hidden behind the surface.. so what about the basic principle being

"No *External* Rotating Surfaces/Parts"

No Saws (or you get into whats a saw vs a big KE disc arguments). Make a flywheel powered spike if you want, but the flywheel cant touch the other bot without going through a intermediate mechanism. No spinning weapon surfaces all. Reciprocating Axes, Hammers, Lifters, Pokers. Crushers etc. No Drills (spinning bits) or similair.

No Wheels. No external spinning drive parts that contact the floor - So no super high speed/power rammers to bend the walkers legs using the KE accumulation advantages of wheeled boxes on a flat floor.

Shuffle plates.. hmm.. tricky.perhaps nothing that contacts floor to move in a clearly defineable even surfaced circle ? I get the feeling I'm trying to split hairs again..

Perhaps no compressed gas either ? Electric power only ? Otherwise in the absence of spinners, it would probably turn into a gas-flipper fest (like the UK).

Just a random thought. If wheeled bots with spinning weapons arent allowed, perhaps people will build creative appearance things that look less like remote controlled Cars with Angle Grinders and they might stand a chance of lasting more than event or two without a rebuild.

Or am I dreaming and it would turn into a rule-bending bush-lawyer fest arguing over compliance ?

Anyone see any obvious holes with the idea ? Would people be interesting in building within such limitations without immediately trying to violate the spirit (if not the letter) of the idea ?
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Post Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:33 pm 
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dyrodium
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So no wheels, spinners, saws, drills, pneumatics. It'd be like this right?



Wink
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Post Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:42 pm 
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Valen
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That's the dream, i think the reality may differ some.

I'd be tempted to agree with banning gas, otherwise your going to wind up with Plan-C style spikes, and that's worse than spinners, not even exciting to watch.
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Post Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:33 pm 
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Philip
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Sounds good to me. Should be very doable in the antweights using servos to control the up and down forwards and backwards of the step.

Can you electronic gurus turn a drill into a servo for leg movement?
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:33 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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Even the normal "pseudo-walker" technique would probably be allowable in such a class..

where ...

you have two driven wheels mounted above each other, of varying sizes driven at a certain ratio...

The leg is a single bar attached to a single point along the permieter of the top wheel.

The leg/bar has a lengthways slot in it that attaches around a protroding bolt on the perimeter of the 2nd (usually larger wheel). The blot slides up and down in this slot.

The bar continutes downwards a distance past the bottom of the bot to make contact with the floor via some form of rubber foot.

Its really just a wonky cam system and the bar is a sort-of-conrod. (think of the wheel/pushrood arrangement on the side of a steam train and you;ll get the idea) - or someone will post a link to a video of the many uK bots that tried to pass it off as a "True Walker" idea.

Its not *really* a walker in the sense that it is hard/heavy enough to do that a robot deserved the highly-sought-after weight bonus to then put into wepoans or armour (though many tried),

but it close enough to a walker that it looks sort of like it is walking, and prevents the robot from being able to build-up accumulate the KE/Speed to be a Rammer that it would do with wheels. It has spinning parts as parts of its mechanism (as does nearly any servo), but the drive element is a reciprocating foot-like affair.

which is good enogh for this idea. where three is no bonus to be had, since all bots would be the same weight, so theres no point trying to disguise wheels as legs to get an extra X%.

If people started to try to build rammers with bent-wheels to call them walkers, we could include a max-speed-limit for the bots to stop people trying to use their walking speed ability as a KE weapon. (bumping into things at high speed may be effecive, but its boring)

The idea being to see interesting bots walk/stomp across the arena to each other at a moderae (now slow, not fast) speed and pound away at each other with clearly identifiable weapons. in "hands"

Elimintaing the dominance of high speed ramming wheeled dodgem cars armed with invisiblly spinning discs of doom. Hopefully making it more anthropomophic and less "industrlal machinery gone wrong" in appearance.
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:55 am 
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Valen
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sounds like your after this
http://mech-warfare.com/
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:52 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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No, Not quite.

The "Toppling Tower of Servo's" mecha-man thing isnt that entertaining, especially when they are just trying to push each over or fire ping pong balls at each other.

No requirement for two legs. Legs dont have to be X*DOF, like I said, no weight bonus, so cam-legs should be ok, just so long as it looks walkerish and cant build up huge speed making it into an effective rammer.

High Impact Weapons OK, Just not 360 spinning KE accumulators that come into direct contact with the opponent. For example Fragmententors Hammer would be out, because it could spin 360 and build up speed (if the bot was on its side) , while Kkeroo's Avenger (which could not) would be OK
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 10:20 am 
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Knightrous
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Re: Possible idea for No Spinner/Walker class

quote:
Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
Does the idea of a No-Spinner/(peusdo)Walker *only* class appeal to people ?

*snip*

Just a random thought. If wheeled bots with spinning weapons arent allowed, perhaps people will build creative appearance things that look less like remote controlled Cars with Angle Grinders and they might stand a chance of lasting more than event or two without a rebuild.

*snip*

Would people be interesting in building within such limitations without immediately trying to violate the spirit (if not the letter) of the idea ?


What's the goal of this class?
To attract people to build artsy robots?
To attract people to join the sport?

From my point of view, this idea has the following problems.

Walker Class: Walkers are always going to be slower then a wheels robot. Slow robots are generally boring and non-entertaining. I don't see this bringing in flocks of people to the sport or even to watch.

Cost: A walker is going to cost a fair bit more the your normal wheeled robot. People are big enough tight asses when it comes to buying a cordless drill for $40 and a hacked speed controller for $40.

Complexity: People have enough troubles keeping a simple wheel bolted to a drill motor, let alone a 6 jointed leg system with multiple mechanisms.

Non - Spinner: As much as I generally agree with this idea and the theory, I don't think it will actually help. An example, in QLD right now, we have no featherweight spinners, yet I still don't see hordes of people rushing into build new featherweights or super cool interesting robots.

Now, what has brought the most interest and attraction to the sport in the last few years? Lower cost weight classes... The introduction of Antweights and Beetleweight has brought in a couple of new players, we've had a boom of regular events and a decent rise in robot attendance. The crowds at Serial Space event was fantastic and showed that the smaller robots are still entertaining. Also, the attrition rate wasn't too bad for an event which was heavily populated by spinners.

In my opinion, a wheeled non-spinner class for the featherweight would have a better chance then a walker class. But even then, could we afford to split the number of robots into another class, or would the spinner builders give up their designs and move to a non-spinner (or would they give up the sport?).
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Nick
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I have to agree with Aaron, the smaller weight classes have really taken off and attracted new builders and interest, so that's the logical place to concentrate our efforts.

Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:21 pm 
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marto
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+1 on aarons comments.
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:45 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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The Goal ? Inspire me to build another robot.. I've gotten bored with armoured boxes on wheels and thought it might be fun to build something different that doesnt have to survive repeated fights with a mobile brush-chipper.

Thought maybe more people would be prepared to put more effort into a bot with some interesting articulation if they werent so "dispoable" after a days fighting and they got more life out of them.

"True" Walkers are slow. Pseudo-walkers are fast enough to be interesting..

but OK. 'Twas just an idea.. Carry on with the Ants and Beetles.
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:56 pm 
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marto
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Try an Ant. Can do some interesting stuff and can be built on your desk. Creating another class might inspire you but you will get bored pretty quick playing in the corner by yourself.
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:37 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Is there a non-spinner no-wheels antweight or beetleweight class ?

Its not changing the size of the robot that makes creativity interesting. Some Heavyweights can be as good or as boring as some feathers Its the overly-simple mix of styles that dissuade me now, not the size. The "Rock Paper Scissors" has become a little bit too literal in the bots for me to want to play again at the moment

Are you telling me the Ant/Beetleweight classes *isnt* 90% wheeled wedges, or spinners ? Why would anyone build something amazing that was going to get smashed by the first box on wheels it came up against ?

Does anyone remember the Mechadon vs Ramstein fight ? Keep spinning things (wheels and weapons) in the fight and the mech spiders will get squashed in 1 fight against a wheeled brick.

Yay, quick, I'll build another Mech Spider for it to happen again next time ! Not.
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:42 pm 
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dyrodium
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3Min of mechadon vs mechadon? It doesn't matter that they're works of art and worth as much as a car, i'd still fall asleep...
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Mechadon was a real (multi axis legs) walker with no weapon that could not move quickly up against a high speed wheeled rammer box. not what I proposed at all.

Its an Example of how boring >pwns interesting when it comes to weight-limited classes

Pseudo-walkers with Axes might be considerably more interesting dont you think ?
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Post Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:51 pm 
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