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Sumo Robots
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At the end of a competition, I want my Robot:
Destroyed and inoperable...
75%
 75%  [ 3 ]
Dented, but I always win, so it will be OK...
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Unscathed and ready for me to improve if I don't win!
25%
 25%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 4

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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 6476
Location: Sydney


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I watched the whole video, most of those were won on a 'who had more magnets and a lower wedge' basis, though the white confusion flags and wedge defeating spikes were nice. Smile You're probably just talking to the wrong group here... half of us can't program at all, or have any interest in that area of robotics.

A lot of uni's would have mechatronic and robotics students already making similar machines for assignments, they'd be a better avenue.

Oh, and you'd be looking at about $220 for a complete featherweight platform to add your sensors and control gear to, so not too bad compared to many pre bought robotics kits. I did a whole video series on hacking $20 Kmart drills into drive motors. Smile http://www.youtube.com/watch?Tv=8_kWYewQmV0&feature=share&list=PLLZMPHyzJwTenqBZp-krFR3ltLbpSmytz

Can take about ~15kg payload.
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:47 pm 
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Red.13



Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 47


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quote:
Originally posted by dyrodium:
I watched the whole video, most of those were won on a 'who had more magnets and a lower wedge' basis, though the white confusion flags and wedge defeating spikes were nice. Smile .


Actually, magnets are not allowed.

And how QUICK were some of them?!! Blindingly fast! Smile

Don't worry... I will build one. But likely wont pit it against spinners. Those are just wrong. Smile

Mark

Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:54 pm 
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Knightrous
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8503
Location: NSW


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quote:
Originally posted by Red.13:
OK, I'm astounded. And disappointed, frankly.

You and me both, I've been keen to see someone bring some automation to the combat side of things, but it just never happens Sad
Would love to see a spinner that runs away while it's getting it's weapon up to speed, then gets aggressive and attacks it's opponent with full force! Or a lifter / clamping robot that pins the opponent against the wall, grabs them and lifts them up. However, I'll probably never see that happen if current trends continue.

quote:
Originally posted by Red.13:

Here is a very cool video of the Japanese doing Sumo. Some of the bots are damn clever! Smile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OWopN7Wysg


I found that video rather boring for a few reason:
1. It is entirely about who has the most magnets and lowest ground scraping wedge. This ends up in a pissing contest, which ruins the fun of the sport (like other forms of sports (ie: drag racing, where having the most cash generally wins out)
2. Both in quite a few fights, one robot activates before the other, making it pretty much one sided. Lack of a real synchronized starting procedure is pretty lame considering the whole "automated" idea here.
3. They lack intelligence, as soon as a the opponent goes out the arena, the remaining robot runs back and forth bouncing off the ring markers. If these were truly clever, they would detect the opponent not being in the arena and return to the centre (maybe a victory spin/dance). They don't seem to have evolved much since I watched sumo robots at USQ in 2002 (Their soccer bots were waaaay cooler!).

Also, if you need some experience with sumo, why not just build a couple of them and let them battle each other? Being autonomous, you don't need mates to drive them for you Smile

A 13.6kg robot is probably just a cheap as one of those tricked out sumo bots (which is what you'll end up having to spend/build to compete against someone with a sumo bot with greater funding invested into it).
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Red.13



Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 47


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quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous:

Would love to see a spinner that runs away while it's getting it's weapon up to speed, then gets aggressive and attacks it's opponent with full force! Or a lifter / clamping robot that pins the opponent against the wall, grabs them and lifts them up. However, I'll probably never see that happen if current trends continue.


Yup, that is all possible... But to get to there, starting with Sumo class is almost a must.

quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous:

I found that video rather boring for a few reason:
1. It is entirely about who has the most magnets and lowest ground scraping wedge. This ends up in a pissing contest, which ruins the fun of the sport (like other forms of sports (ie: drag racing, where having the most cash generally wins out)


Isn't that the case with ANY sport? In the Robotwars, it seems like spinners always win. *shrug*

BTW, magnets are not allowed nor any other sort of suction to the deck.

quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous:

2. Both in quite a few fights, one robot activates before the other, making it pretty much one sided. Lack of a real synchronized starting procedure is pretty lame considering the whole "automated" idea here.


Well that really should not happen. There is a 5 second pause after they release the button. If anyone didn't react as soon as 5 secs were up, that is their poor coding.

But, there have been some calls and modules made to force remote starts by the judge. Those modules are available but to my knowledge are not yet enforced.

quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous:

3. They lack intelligence, as soon as a the opponent goes out the arena, the remaining robot runs back and forth bouncing off the ring markers. If these were truly clever, they would detect the opponent not being in the arena and return to the centre (maybe a victory spin/dance). They don't seem to have evolved much since I watched sumo robots at USQ in 2002 (Their soccer bots were waaaay cooler!).


LOL! Funny you should say that... I am putting in victory dances in mine. Smile

quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous:

Also, if you need some experience with sumo, why not just build a couple of them and let them battle each other? Being autonomous, you don't need mates to drive them for you Smile


That's hardly fun. And twice as costly as required to get the same result.

Seriously... Take a look at Robogames... http://robogames.net/index.php

Is it not possible for this group to expand into other fields? Every class gets "boring" eventually, and so constant additions and changes to the rules and classes needs to be done to keep it vibrant.

My aim is to have several robots and to take them over to Seattle one day... Imagine winning one of those comps! Smile

Mark

Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:38 pm 
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marto
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 5459
Location: Brisbane, QLD


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You may also have not seen this from a couple of years back.
http://robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1520

Steve
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:45 pm 
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marto
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Location: Brisbane, QLD


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Also robogames ended this year and I was there, what's in Seattle?
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:48 pm 
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Knightrous
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8503
Location: NSW


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quote:
Originally posted by Red.13:

Isn't that the case with ANY sport? In the Robotwars, it seems like spinners always win. *shrug*


Not quite the case, at RoboWars Nationals 2012, Antweight and Featherweight categories were won by pushy bots (Both well driven robots). The Beetleweights class was won by drum bot spinner, Hammerhead, but it didn't do any robot life ending damage at the event.
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:12 pm 
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Red.13



Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 47


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quote:
Originally posted by marto:
You may also have not seen this from a couple of years back.
http://robowars.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1520

Steve


A great thread! I'll read it in full tonight. Smile

Mark

Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:41 pm 
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Red.13



Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 47


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quote:
Originally posted by marto:
Also robogames ended this year and I was there, what's in Seattle?


Ended? As in, for good? Noooo! Really?

Sorry, I thought Robogames was held in Seattle... Got mixed up with another group of roboteers that are based there.

Mark

Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:43 pm 
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marto
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Location: Brisbane, QLD


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Yep this was the last year of Robogames. Simone and Dave have called it quits.

There may be another combat event in miami next year to supplement it but unlikely there will be any of the additional competitions.

Steve
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:16 pm 
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Red.13



Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 47


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quote:
Originally posted by marto:
Yep this was the last year of Robogames. Simone and Dave have called it quits.

There may be another combat event in miami next year to supplement it but unlikely there will be any of the additional competitions.

Steve


Well... That blows... Sad

Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Jaemus
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Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 2674
Location: NSW


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quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous:

The Beetleweights class was won by drum bot spinner, Hammerhead, but it didn't do any robot life ending damage at the event.


It was meee! Muaha

Yeah the drum bots tend to do a bit more flipping and a bit less outright destroying things, in the beetle class anyway - tis one of the reasons I like them
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Post Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Red.13



Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 47


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quote:
Originally posted by Jaemus:
quote:
Originally posted by Knightrous:

The Beetleweights class was won by drum bot spinner, Hammerhead, but it didn't do any robot life ending damage at the event.


It was meee! Muaha

Yeah the drum bots tend to do a bit more flipping and a bit less outright destroying things, in the beetle class anyway - tis one of the reasons I like them


Can I ask... With the drum bots or even the saw-bladded ones... Has anyone thrown a steel cable or thin chain at them? Is it possible they would get bound up? Smile

Mark

Post Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:04 am 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 4433
Location: Sydney


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I watched the video, there a definitely magnets in those bots, watch as they put them onto the arena floor.
The problem with automation presently is trying to put sensors that can reliably detect another robot onto a vibrating platform that's getting beaten up. That and having enough cpu horse power for any form of computer vision in the same package is a tough task to achieve.

The most plausible systems I have looked at are doing the automation outside the arena, then just running the bot itself as a "dumb client" basically there would be no change to the robot itself.
Something like a kinect and a high speed camera system with a beefy GPU powered CV system I can see working.

As far as "spinners win everything", take a look at daemon, that irritating little wedge with its stupidly overpowered drive and armor grade steel shell won *way* to many events.
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Post Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Jaemus
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Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Posts: 2674
Location: NSW


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^ I think you mean Cobra, more correctly known as King Cobra?

Red.13: Yes, it's been considered, and made illegal. You cant have weapons that ensnare or entangle the opponent (deliberately, anyway).
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<Patrician|Away> what does your robot do, sam
<bovril> it collects data about the surrounding environment, then discards it and drives into walls

Post Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:06 pm 
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