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seanet1310
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: Adelaide
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Sean, why are you "very worried" about the percentage of Christians? Why would an atheist care? If some person is deluded, from your perspective, and believes in God, why would that make you very worried? From a Darwinian perspective, isn't your only goal personal survival? What difference is it to you if your neighbour lives a moral life and obeys the law of the land?
I agree with Miles above. But just for fun I will address your darwinian question.
My personal survival due to humans like most mammals being social animals that form groups my survival is linked to the groups ability to attack, defend, provide food, shelter and many other things. This is the same as wild dogs in a pack. When majority of a group believe a certain way and attempt to dictate the groups direction or lack their of based on an un-testable set of stories from the bronze age (manipulated, added to, subtracted to and modified by people thought the ages to ensure their views are what is followed ) while increasing stability in theory (current proportions, not so stable) leads to illogical decisions that threaten the group as a whole and thus my personal existence and therefore ability to reproduce with long living offspring.
As bonus content.
Why I am "Very worried"
While Australia is not too bad for the most part (Christians only try to dictate law based on their book a couple dozen times a year) just look at other fun countries. America, Saudi Arabia, Congo(both), Egypt, mexico, Iran and many others (BTW, as I am sure you noticed. I listed equal numbers of high Christian countries and high Muslim) with high religious numbers. History has proven, while Christians claim to be peace loving and forgiving they are far from it.
_________________
Remember to trust me, I am an Engineer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rp8hvyjZWHs
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Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:37 pm |
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Spockie-Tech
Site Admin
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Although Im trying to resist the temptation to get drawn too deeply back into the never ending flamefest...
look at the amount of christians (and other religions) who want to "filter" (a new word to disguise the fact they really mean *censor*) the internet.
OMG! A Mass-Media source we dont control, cant influence, and people can talk en-masse to each other via !
We need to get control of it to protect the kiddies from Kiddie Porn (guaranteed to annoy 98% of the population), Violent Porn, X Porn, Y Porn, Subversive Information, Hate Speech, Gay Activisits, anti-political speech, Free Information, Entertainment, etc etc..
In fact, anything T.P.B. (The Powers that Be - enetertainly the same initials as The Pirate Bay, a big thorn in their side, how ironic) dont want you to hear or think.. And guess which groups are shouting the loudest for the "right" to censor the internet and filter what information reaches peoples brains ?
hint- It *isnt* the atheists of the world.
That is yet another reason to fear a world full of people who subscribe to a single book actually written by *men* - claiming to be inspired by an invisible source of authority (the very term God-Head).
Are most Religious people really Harmless, Friendly, Tolerant People ? I think not.
They often look it on the surface, but give them an opportunity to stamp out all forms of competing information, burn books, torture heretics, censor knowledge and claim exclusive authority and they "keys to heaven" and watch them act like the power-mad monkeys they really are.
A good quote from a book I recently read..
"So many fundamentally identical faiths have been forced apart merely by those who have given different names to their dieties and who have grown greedy for physical reward.. Whole people's are convinced to denounce and kill each other furiously so that a few evil symbolic men at the top can wear robes of golden cloth"
http://images.google.com.au/images?q=pope+benedict+emperor+palpatine
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/153/153_10.asp
Yay religion. you little people down there be good now and follow this book of rules, until we decide we need you all to band together and kill this bunch of unbelievers over there..
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people
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Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:04 am |
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Philip
Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 3842
Location: Queensland near Brisbane
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Dodge nothing. You were talking about censorship. China sensors the internet.
I have never been to any church that has in any way expressed a desire to censor the internet or anything else. I have never been involved in any conversation in person or online with any Christian that wanted to censor the internet or anything else. Not even once in 45 years.
I am sure that some group some where was like to criminalise everything and another group somewhere would like to legalise everything.
I might agree with you on your rant against religion. It depends on your definition. As previously posted, religion, in the Bible, is used in contrast to Christianity.
Acts 26:4-6 (ESV)
4) “My manner of life from my youth, spent from the beginning among my own nation and in Jerusalem, is known by all the Jews.
5) They have known for a long time, if they are willing to testify, that according to
the strictest party of our religion I have lived as a Pharisee
.
6) And
now
I stand here on trial because of
my hope in the promise
made by God to our fathers,
The Pharisee sect took the law of Moses also known as the ten commandments and decided that there were not enough rules. They added 1200+ rules (from memory). They were the greatest opponents to Christianity. They persecuted the apostles and killed and imprisoned Christians. The religious people rejected Jesus and delivered him to crucifixion.
Yay religion.
Jesus went to all types of people and made them comfortable. Tax collectors, prostitutes, leapers, rulers of the synagogues, fishermen, etcetera. The religious people were the only ones Jesus treated harshly.
We have agreed previously that power hungry political types wreck things. See
this
thread. Maybe any church or other group of people with a committee should disband and start from scratch every fifteen years or so to get rid of the entrenched political types.
You see the same thing happen with old church traditions. Some religious types make up their own rules. You will note that forbidding to marry is absolutely in contradiction with the Bible.
1Tim 4:1-3 (ESV)
1Tim 4
1) Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
2) through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
3) who
forbid marriage
and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
You will find that most of the new testament contains exhortations not to go back to the religious observances, (that is, trying to become good by keeping rules and doing other works) and leave Christianity.
Gal 5:4 (ESV)
4) You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Read the whole book of Galatians to check the context.
Religion is all about what man has to do. Christianity is all about what Christ has done. Religion is only good for people who want to feel guilty and hypocrites. Christianity is for everyone else.
_________________
So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems
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Mon Jun 25, 2012 7:19 am |
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Spockie-Tech
Site Admin
Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 3160
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Dodge nothing. You were talking about censorship. China sensors the internet.
Yes, but China isnt a religion - which is what I was referring to. although it is supposedly (so we are told) run by a party of "leaders" who follow the typical "keep naughty information from our people for their own good" principle
quote:
I have never been to any church that has in any way expressed a desire to censor the internet or anything else. I have never been involved in any conversation in person or online with any Christian that wanted to censor the internet or anything else. Not even once in 45 years.
Ever heard of Steven Conroy ? Bob Brown ? Steven Fielding ? Family First ? Guess which religious banner they all claim to operate under in their calls to save the people from themselves ?
http://www.google.com/search?q=religious+internet+censorship+australia+steve+fielding+bob+brown+stephen+conroy
Maybe your personal group of friends dont put it high on their priority discussion list, but the boys up the top sure do..
quote:
I am sure that some group some where was like to criminalise everything and another group somewhere would like to legalise everything.
Absolutely, in one corner you have the radicals who want to change everything they dont like, and in the other corner, the conservatives, who wanto to keep things they way they are (usually because have have set thing up to benefit themselves, or are just crusty old buggers who hate change)
"Mainstream Society" is naturally the middle ground between these two opposing forces, and its where the majority of people comfortably life, ignoring the ranting from those out on the leading and trailing fringes.
quote:
I might agree with you on your rant against religion. It depends on your definition. As previously posted, religion, in the Bible, is used in contrast to Christianity.
I define religion as any structure of social and behavioural rules which is based upon a set of fundamentally unproveable axioms (historical miracles, revelations, inspirations) from which a whole group of people are then indocrinated / coerced (through false or unproveable promises (heaven), (bible schools, etc) or threats (hell/damnation)) they they must follow closely, that is usually codified in a "holy" document "bible, koran, scriptures / whatever" and they are encouraged to spread to their associates with the reassurances that they are doing them a favour by doing so.
As a quick side issue, I am not a pure materialist, and have experienced many things that suggest to me that there *is* much more to the world than we presently perceive/understand.
But I do *not* think that there are is any peronsality/ego/entity/judge attached to these forces and that the loads of claptrap that have been written and argued over endlessly for centuries by near-brain-damaged "religious scholars" are about as sensible as the equally fervently held ancient opinions that Lightning bolts were hurled by Thor and the rainbow (BiFrost) was a bridge to heaven (Asgard)
quote:
We have agreed previously that power hungry political types wreck things.
Maybe any church or other group of people with a committee should disband and start from scratch every fifteen years or so to get rid of the entrenched political types.
Agreed, bur rather than time, I'd limit it in size as well as time. Power Hungry humans naturally gravitate towards "positions of power". The old story, The people who *want* to run things are nearly ways the last* people you would want running things, since they usually arent doing it out of altrusim.
Small local "Churches" of community members coming together for a gathering on sunday, a bit of a sing together and a cup of tea I have no problem with. Thats healthy human social nature
Crazy old men leading massive organisations issuing orders/commandments/fatwas to legions of the faithful/soldiers that they are expected to abide by or be expelled/excommunicated/court martialled is a guaranteed recipie for death destruction and evil.
quote:
Read the whole book of Galatians to check the context.
Religion is all about what man has to do. Christianity is all about what Christ has done. Religion is only good for people who want to feel guilty and hypocrites. Christianity is for everyone else.
It seems that you are trying to distance Christianity from "Religion" there, but Im afraid that in my view it is equally (if not even more so) guilty of the many evils of most organised religions..
How do you justify these ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onward_Christian_Soldiers
the lyrics
http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh575.sht
_________________
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people
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Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:14 pm |
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RoboWars Australia Forum Index
-> Off-Topic
Ignore the majority of the post and focus on the "think of the kiddies" bit.. 
