in the first plan-b V IG fight we had a battery connection break (the good pack of course)
we had another pack in parallell with that but it was putting out not much in the way of voltage,
we could still move on that pack but it was very slow, as such i really didnt want to drive it too much for fear of blowing IBC's etc up, after the match i thaught i showed the judges we were still mobile, though i dont know if they saw it or not.

in the end i'm not unhappy with the decision (not going to say i *liked it* lol i mean after all we lost), we had done more damage (by quite a bit ;->) but bretts fairly convincing pwonzorage afterwards as a ram bot made it a tough call.
at the level displayed by IG in fight 1 (and 2 if i can rember it) then i would count the ram as being "suitiblly dramatic/spectaculat/impressive" to make up for the physical damage caused. now that aint no sissy wedge ;->


El-B at one stage had quite a decent drive setup after having one wheel ripped off (you can see it in a vid nick put up a while ago i think), he could still controll the bot and go wherever he wanted in the arena, it may not have been pretty but it was functional. that wouldnt count as a KO to me even with lacking one drive.

I think that its safe to say nobody tried to influence the judges in any "corrupt" way and nobody suspects anybody of trying to do so.

edit, by very slow i mean spirit rover on mars slow
probbly about 5cm per second or so, a 360 rotation took 15 seconds or so
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

A good exercise to try and make some sense out of all this discussion will be to post hypothetical battles and then ask for the outcome and reason on the decision. You don`t need a blow by blow acount for every second, just the important, contravercial aspects.

Despite the problem of defining the meaning of terms, if we can start to get together in a similar mindset of outcomes,,, well it coudn`t hurt.

E.G.
Bot A. runs rings around bot B, performing obvious tactical manouvers, attacking regularly but causing no obvious damage. Bot B. drives like crap, only getting lucky hits but tearing off most of Bot A`s armour. Both Bots are still functioning as designed but 5 secs. from the end Bot A`s wheel drops off!

Who won!?

What about if the wheel didn`t fall off!?

well in that senario HOW did the wheel fall off was it because of impacts from bot B or was it because he was driving very tactilally and does bot A still try and attack or is it a sitting duck

if it was due to Bot B hitting it or hitting its armor and pushing it onto the wheel than bot B wins but if bot A still attacks even though it drove to the point its wheel came off and it was still moveing semi decent (translationsal movement) than it wasnt a crippiling attack and bot A wins its a situation that would require conversation about but thats my oppinion
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In my opinion, the wheel falling off in the last 5 seconds should not be considered decisive in the match. It would count for damage points, but there is not enough time to consider it a knockout failure & some bots can continue to drive with one wheel without a problem..

So it sounds to me like Bot A gets the control and agression points, Bot B gets the damage points.. excluding the unknown of style here, then Bot A gets the win despite his wheel falling off with 5 seconds to go.

I like that result. limping around with crap driving and control, but getting a few lucky but highly damaging hits in with a *possible*-KO-causing event 5 seconds before the end of the match should not outweigh a combination of superior driving, control and agression.

If the wheel *didnt* fall off, then it would just reduce the damage points awarded to the other bot. whether that is decisive or not would depend on how many points for control and agression they got.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

Thanks Brett, thats the kind of answer I`m looking for. "Bashes Wayde" for indecision! The wheel fell off 5 secs. from the end! Not enough time to count out or demonstrate driving ability.

what actually *is* "style" anyway?
would we do better if we painted our bot in chartruse with a aquamarine trim?
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

As mentioned before, style is anything which cannot be defined in the judging, but is nonetheless cool (in the opinion of the judge).

It could be a paint scheme, a theme / appearance to the robot, a particularly effective manuever, or anything that made the judge (and hopefully the crowd) go "Whoo !".

The idea is to encourage people to put a little bit of effort into making machines that are interesting to look at, rather than just square boxes with a 10hp lawn-mower blade attached.

Its always going to be a controversial one, because it isn't defined in the rules, so people cant specifically design for it and cant figure out whether they get the points or not. You either got it, or you dont..

It will also mean different things to different people, so if you're planning on the chartreuse with aquamarine, then youd better get beau brummel as a judge..

Put Simply, I think the bots need to look better than a remote controlled lawnmower to appeal to spectators, and this is our way of encouraging that.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

down with style

as for the hypothetical i think it would much closer than people have been making out, i mean most of its armour got torn off which is significant damage. but despite that the control and aggression of bot A wins out.

however if bot B was actually driving into the other guy to cause that damage i would say it would win.
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heres how i see style ....a wedge bot has a spinner bot pinned up against an arena wall and gives him no room or oppurtunity to spinnup his weapon ,he keeps thumping him into the wall and not letting him escape .....no different to a boxer giving upper cuts to an opponent up against the ropes and keeping him there THAT IS STYLE

the driving ability he used to get the spinner in that position in the first place. just as a boxer would use controlled forward movement and short body jabs to force the opponent against the ropes THATS CONTROL

then theres blood from a cut eye and a busted nose THATS DAMAGE. be it a few scratches a few gouges or a whole side ripped off personally i dont care but the robot driver [boxer] used STYLE and CONTROL to acheive the DAMAGE part and he earned the win he went into the battle well trained and built..
and be honest here folks ask any boxer or boxing fan or roboteer or robot fan and they will all say the best wins were the hard fought wins and not the 20sec 1st round ko"s

and thats how i see judging
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this topic has gone a bit quiet
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thing is you are giving 2 catagories for driving and only one for damage.
everybody is best served in that rule set by building stuff that drives really well and not worry about damage as you could all but destroy another bot and still loose because he drove better.
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

exactly ,thats how i see it personally, its not all about just damage and its not all about style and control, but i do have problem giving points to a robot that just got in a few lucky punches and didnt earn them ,hell i can build a bot with a 4 kg bar spinning at 2000 rpm and trash bots all day just wait till someone runs into me ,so should i still win ??
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what video's do you like watching?
ones with 2 boxes trying to push each other around the ring or ones where there are 2x 4kg bar spinners blowing the crap out of each other?

rules should reflect what the people watch for ;->
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

Depend how you put that Jake. Two boxes ramming into each other is boring, but if they are run flat across the arena, shoving one and other into the walls with some loud crashes and one robot getting full pwn'd, that's fun to watch. Two big spinners sitting at opposite ends of the arena, both spinning up to full speed and then crawling across the arena trying to hit each other is boring. Two spinners going head to head smashing into each other and ripping chunks out, leaving only one spinner and one pile of smoking parts is awesome to see.

Boring pushy match = KO VS Shyte
Exciting pushy match = Hellbringer VS SS Rat

Boring spinner match = Reboot VS Scoopy (it ended to quick with little damage)
Exciting spinner match = IG VS Plan B
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folks im not interested in what entertains an audience ......its about what is involved in a battle and how an outcome is reached ....we all need to look beyond the fireworks and pretty lights and not think off the asthetics of it only .as i said its how i judge a battle .....and im all for damage and the like ,remember SORRY was the first nsw spinner and saw bot so i know what you mean .......but im a huge supporter of good well built non active weapon bots as well and i just see there is more to it than carnage and a person who practices to drive well ,builds a tough reliable bot ,but doesnt have a weapon should still be judged in the true spirit of a battle
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