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Bot Bash 13.6kg Entry level Competition
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the moth
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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Bot Bash 13.6kg Entry level Competition

Bot Bash
Is a reasonably fixed format competition to allow novices to have fun and gain valuable experiance without being destroyed immediatly .
This competition will be coordinated and held seperate to the main "Robo wars" comp and will ultimatly have its own forum area . As people developed compeditive bots - they would migrate to the main competition . All "normal" robowars rules and regulations will apply with the following alterations .

Exemptions to these "basic rules" is available to all existing bots
that are not utilising any rotating or high energy weapons
Best you e-mail me if you are interested on "botbash@allsuburbs.com"


The BotBash home site is now "up" at www.botbash.robowars.org

Intrim "Bash" specs are :
(This page will continue to be updated )

Weight
Up to but not over 13.6kg – no other weights are allowed

Maximum size
All bots must sit flat inside a 1m long x .7m wide x .7m high “box”

Motor type allowed
Confirmed ”battery drill” type motors and gearboxes only in the range of 7.2 to 14.4v . Exemption could be granted for other 12v motors eg: car window winders / wipers

Wheels / Tracks
All forms of wheels/ tracks are allowed if construction materials are of a safe nature

Batteries allowed All sizes or combinations of sealed lead acid batteries , but to a maximum voltage of 12v only – Ni-cads or similar battery types are not allowed . no combinations that create voltages higher that 12 are allowed .

Radio control system
Robots must be radio controlled by standard Hobby Radio Control Equipment

Weapons
No external “high energy” spinning weapons, including all forms of saws , rotating bars and discs . No projectile weapons unless tethered to the firing robot are allowed . No “High pressure” pneumatics are allowed , but “low pressure” will be considered .“Drill” heads are allowed as long as the chuck is the “keyed” type of no more than 10mm internal diameter and the drill bit does not exceed 15 mm . All sharp edges must have suitable “covers” fitted when not actually physically inside the arena . this includes the pits .

Motor control system
Relays , servo switches or similar only . No elecronic proportional motor , speed controllers or gyroscopic controllers of any sort are allowed to be used . Actual modified "Drill trigger" controllers can get special approval as long as they are truly "non commercial" and remain in the spirit of this competition

Power Switch
A externally accessible master power switch that COMPLETELY DISCONNECTS all of the batteries is required on all robots – This switch must be in the main feed wires of the batteries and must be of a mechanical nature .

Power indication
A internally and externally clearly visible power light is required on all robots .

Fail safe
All bots are to have a demonstrable on request , “fail safe” that completely disables the robot and all weapons if radio contact is lost between the controller and robot – The failsafe should engage no later than 5 seconds after loss of contact and remain engaged until radio contact is returned . A clearly visible external orange light indicating the failsafe is engaged is required on all robots .

Allowed construction materials
All basic readily available materials eg: Steel , Aluminum , Tin , Plastic , Wood

Conduct
All competitors should be respectful to all other competitors and people at all times and should NEVER intentionally cause stress or discomfort for any other person whilst in the arena or event area .

Banned materials items and things – short list (expect it to grow)
Titanium , Kevlar , specialized metals and materials
All forms of flammable and toxic materials
All explosive , toxic and high voltage materials and devices

You can safely bet that all expensive or exotic materials will become banned as they are not in the "spirit" of this competition .


Last edited by the moth on Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:20 pm; edited 2 times in total

Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:59 am 
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kkeerroo
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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They tried this format in England as the Rex's robot challenge but it failed. People just don't want to build small limited robots like this first.
Also limiting the weight to a 600 gram bracket is not a good idea.

*Edited by the other Kero brother* Geez, thats harsh. Battlesbots IQ is doing rather well isn't it?
But he's right about the weight limits. Are you going to make them put ballist in the robots if the robots are under 13kg?
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Last edited by kkeerroo on Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:53 pm 
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Glen
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by the time youve spent the money on the failsafes you migth as well have bough an IBC an entered it in the real competition.


quote:
As people developed compeditive bots - they would migrate to the main competition


if your only fighting 12v drill switch controlled powered bumper bots there never going to get competitive anyway..

will be interesting to see how it all pans out
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Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:23 pm 
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Abregado



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
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I think that it is more that the BotBash competitors will be able to learn and still feel that their bots are competitive. Good to get school and the younger generation involved. Once they get a feel for electronics and general design they can begin to work on more ambitious projects.

I certainly feel this will help develop the sport down in South Gippsland where people can fight their bots anytime in the Junkyard. haha it would be good if robotic combat replaced the desire of young people to play Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon... its just so much more real.... Very Happy

Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:00 pm 
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dyrodium
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How could you make an orange light go on when the failsafe's engaged?
Where would this be held? Sidetracked?
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Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:30 pm 
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Glen
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you would probably have to crack open the failsafe module and solder on a pair of wires somewhere.....

wouldnt like to be the one to do it myself.
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Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:38 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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If it looks like its going to be a popular concept, then I will see about getting Oatley or Jaycar to turn the PRC (PicAxe Relay Controller) into a Kit.

It has failsafe, mixing and weapon control with a failsafe indication LED and can be built for $20 or so.
Thats what powering Vincent at the moment anyway
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Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:05 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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MM no electronic proportional speed control of any sort ... so those experimentors wanting to have a crack at converting drill triggers and servos to build experimental speed controlers wont be allowed unles they make them on off only ?

An orange light to come on when in fail safe mode ?... that might take a bit of tricky electronics as well especialy iff you are talking about useing relays or servo switches and stuff im not sure how i could even conect an orange light to the ibc to show its in fail safe mode

Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:25 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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What about chanel mixing or do these robots have to be tank styled steering as well?
Sorry i'm not trying to knock the idea, Brett and i had converstaions about this sort of class a long time ago.

I think you need to kick the idea around a bit with the more experianced builders and make the guidelines a bit more flexible..

Mabee something like ( no comercial type speed controlers allowed)

Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:41 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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Confirmed battery drill type motors and gear boxes only ? Why limit motors that type only ?.First time buildres could use windscreen wiper motors car door window winders small compresor motors electric sscrewdrivers ect .

I would be more inclined to limit this to ..... motors ( mabee200 or 300) watts or less at 12 volts

Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:52 pm 
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Valen
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there is a thing about saftey
if you are adding something to make it safer odds are your doing it wrong
(hey i just invented that saying, innit nifty?)

if the robots "master arm"(kids its gotta be cool) switch is "on" then the robot is liable to do the worst thing it can possibly do at any given moment.
because some orange light is on some kids bot in no way means its safe.
all it means is one leg of the LED is shorted to the case or anything of a thousand other things.
tell the kid to drive the bot and while its moving turn the radio off.
if the bot stops and stays stopped, then it has a failsafe.
if the bot has a battery in it then it is dangerous. Thats all there is too it. (same as pressure guages really)


with the level of population we have i dont think segregation of any competition is a good idea if it can be avoided. people who compete in x wont compete in y.
Kids like robot wars because they see hypnodisk ripping the arse off some other bot and they will still recognise a pushy fight as being pretty dull unless there is some uberage (like some fairly over volted motors somewhere)

on a more technical note i think SLA's only will hinder more than help. drill nicads seem to be better than SLA's and last far longer.
rules should as a rule be as simple as possibe so that more complex "emergant behaviours" can come out and you still get interesting solutions.
rather than specifying all that stuff about everything say
"the robot must cost < $60, any donated/found parts/services are taken at what their value would be if baught commercially, not counted in the cost of the robot is electronics inside the bot or radio gear"

should add a clause about stuff done with high end tools.
sometihng perhaps like "any work done on the bot involving tools other than basic hand and power tools is to be charged at a proffesional rate ($30 an hr or something like that say)"
so the fact daddy has a lathe dosent factor into things too much

then let the kids build whatever they want, within the normal robot wars limits.

I see the need for some kind of seperation, dyrodium Vs Jolt would not be a pretty sight (though i'd say the same for pretty much any bot except cobra in which case it is a thing of rare and spectacular beauty) but you want to do it without limiting people.
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Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:57 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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I Agree with Jake on the fail safe rule
But mabee the fail safe test should be extended to 3 sussesfull consecutive tests (ie run the bot turn the transmitter off the bot stops do it twice more .If it stops and stays stopped 3 times it passes iff it fails then its not allowed to run until it can pass .

Post Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:13 pm 
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the moth
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Ahh... Allways entertaining listening to "professional" bot builders offering their wide ranging opinions...

This mini series is for novice builders only ( try reading the opening paragraph ) and is concepted to restrict the inital costs and problems of building you very first combat robot . After all if you want to , and have the resourses to build a nicad powerd , Ibc controlled , saw buzzing robot - you simply join the main compertition . SLA's are cheap and limit the stall currents of the motors effectivly . No over volting helps your motors and relays to last longer . A $30 dollar relay controller is slightly cheaper than a $320 dollar I.B.C. (and their the cheapest speed controller) , relays are easier to set up than any other drive control . "Specialised materials" are banned because of cost . The fail safe light is partially there so YOU know you have radio problems to fix . The power light is so everyone knows the bot is live and capable of doing anything . The power switch disconnects all batteries and makes the bot as safe as possible . Obviously everyone forgets the problems they had with their first bot , this is to help novices sort out their basic issues and learn valuable competition experiance before they face the "higher level" bots . Most builders started with a "low level" bot and were belted by the higher level bots whilst trying to sort their radio , wheels etc . People with "high level bots" complain about saws near their electronics , yet happily destroy "low level" bots that are barely moving obviously due to radio problems ( watch some of the video's ) - Should novices with limited resourses meet this fate ? . Most bots in this series will cost less than a I.B.C. and will offer novices a great chance to get "up to speed" before they meet their maker . If you think that a "pushy bot" contest is boreing than you have forgotten your first one . Anyone wish to list the real cost of their bot and then try to workout how a struggaling family might pay for it ? . For those who think our population is 50 people - its actually about 20 million and no we do not live in England or the USA . The best bots can compete is the main series if they wish and the worst will need to get better .

Btw : My bot (Vincent) is built to this spec and runs in the "professional" comp . He made the quarter finals in 2004 and got killed in the first round of 2005 cause of radio problems .

Basic Vincent parts costs
Car Relays ( free from local wreakers)
Radio (free from old r/c car )
Scrap aluminium $60.oo
Relay -controller $30.oo
2 x SLa batteries $40.oo
4xBunnings drills $68.oo
miscalanious bits $70.oo
Bunnings Wheels $30.oo

Vincent Bits Total $298.oo
( He was cheaper when he had only two wheels )
Enjoy
Moth

Post Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:02 pm 
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Glen
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no one is going to tell me i cant remember my first competition, because i can still remember going to marayong 2 and getting destroyed by mite after moving 2cm,

and i can also remember wayde moving 2m before getting snapped but sorry,

and i can remember andrew getting belted about by el bravo AND sorry at marayong 1... ive seen all the new kids come and fight, all three of us started out as THE BEGINER your throwing the idea at.

given they didnt have things like plan b and jolt so i guess its good to have that option there if its needed.

as andrew + jake where saying some loose ends have to be tied up there, theres nothing wrong with using a pair of drill triggers which are variable control as they are just a variant of servo switching. some old window wipers and things are great begineer drives as are the kiddy cars.

the failsafe LED confuses me still as i dont know how it actually is possible to make? do your PIC controllers have a seperate output to power such a light or something.

what would be your opinion angus/ chris goode if your still floating around? you guys can probably remember more than any starting out.
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Post Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:57 pm 
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colin



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drills come with ni-cads, why not let them use what they have already paid for?

Post Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:25 pm 
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