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Bot Bash 13.6kg Entry level Competition
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timmeh
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Joined: 20 Jul 2004
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Location: Victoria


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Are hamers and axes allowed in the beginners class?
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:02 pm 
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kkeerroo
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Location: Brisbane


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Re: Bot Bash 13.6kg Entry level Competition

quote:
Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
Also, Rick wants to help teach young kids the sport of building Robots and understanding how they work, and relay control is hard enough to teach young kids who arent even sure what a relay is, much less trying to explain a MosFet PWM H-Bridge.


And


quote:
Easy to do with the Pic-axe-Relay-Controller, and not that difficult in other circumstances.


Sound like a contradiction to me (as the mechanic of the team). Even though I have learn't a lot about electronics over the last few years I have absolutly no idea how to start programing a pic-axe, let alone making it do that orange light thingy. Just because you electronic freaks (yes I know my brother will read this) know how to do this and think its a peice of piss doesn't me people like me know how to, and you are calling me a professional. Are you expecting a $10 per/week school kid to know how to? And I thought $10 a week was a fortune when I was at school. We only got $2 a week each until we went to uni.


quote:
Allso ww motors are found cheap so if they were allowed then maby there can be a rule that you are allowed more voltage of you are using such motors?


Why? Hellbringer 1 had W/W motors and you should have seen it try to push our house over when tried to stall it agaisnt a wall. It sat there jumping up and down and the wheels never slowed down. And that was 12V.
In fact Hellbringer 1 was $120 total, including a $30 2 channel radio we scored at a garage sale.
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:06 pm 
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timmeh
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First thing is i think they should be allowed.
People in beginners class wouldent be having to pay out for broken gearboxes intern cutting cost.

In reply to your question of why ad more voltage is one brett ses the rule of no more then 12v is there so peeps are less likely to break drill motors with a relay controller well ww motors wont have a problem with that therefore if the motor is too slow they can add more voltage to make it a resanoble speed.

Allso cutting cost is they wont kill your sla batterys so quick like the drill motors will.

What is the rule with drill motors and how many allowed in the bot?
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Last edited by timmeh on Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:17 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Joined: 31 May 2004
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OK, The Pic-Axe Controller will be a bit of a "black-magic" box.. but we're hoping to make it available as a kit (or maybe even preconstructed for those who think soldering = welding). If you want to learn the details of how it works you can, but otherwise you just think of it as an extension of your radio and dont ask questions.. Wink

I cant see any reason why Hammers and Axes shouldnt be allowed, but they're a lot harder to make work than they look.. have to ask Rick though.. hes the mover behind this class
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:17 pm 
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timmeh
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Yes and hammers and axes arent going to distroy other peoples bots therfore it wont be clashing with the reason behind no spinning weapons.
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:21 pm 
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dyrodium
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Joined: 24 Aug 2004
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Are drums banned too? What about crushers?
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Last edited by dyrodium on Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:30 pm 
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timmeh
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Drums are spinners so id say so but as for crushers they are electric and i dont see why they should be banned.
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:34 pm 
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dyrodium
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Would materials like polycarbonate be alowed? Smile
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:45 pm 
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timmeh
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Good question.

It is a specialized material but isnt realy expensive.
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:03 pm 
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the moth
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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Location: Melbourne


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Hi all
I'll try to answer most of the questions - but you need to understand the basic concepts here .
This class attempts to be a true learning ground for novices and people of limited resources and so any really destructive weapon would not be in the sprit or interests of this comp level . I already know that there will be people who will push the rules or simply continue to throw great sums of money at a bot to win and 'cause of this things like NiCad’s will remain banned . Although this will sound mean , I will ultimately play god in this class and exclude all bots/teams that obviously do not understand the intent and principles of this class .The intent here is to foster creativity but NOT absolute destruction . There is no “win at all costs” here I will grant exemptions to most of the basic rules if there is a real reason to do so . Existing bots who wish to compete may do so with exemptions , but new bots will need to comply . But every body needs to understand what this level is about . Things like "over-volting" are the cause of constant problems and if you need to "over-volt" to get speed you are probably using the wrong motors . Slow bots that take a effective attack to the other bot are more likely to win than a "fast" uncontrollable bot .I know that many will argue this - but I overview the video footage and most of the "fast" bots spend most of their time missing their opponents and hitting the wall .

Things like Polycarbonate (which is reasonably affordable and accessible ) would be o.k.
The maximum size is there ‘cause kids also have to carry these bots safely .
El-Bravo is a “high-level” bot , and I bet it pumps up its tanks to high pressure .
Brett - i will amend the opening post for your radio suggestion

Enjoy
Moth
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:09 pm 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Sydney


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2 nit picks
1 "effective attack", what damage is any bot in this class going to do to any other bot?
2) mandating people to use SLA's will cause them to spend more money
a) they have to buy the SLA's in the first place
b) after a few matches when they are dead they need to be replaced.

let them use the drill NiCads and worst case the drill trigger speed controllers.

if you want to make it so it is still possible to have "big hits" mandate armor.
all armor must be 10mm chipboard or some such. otherwise your going to have a bunch of slow drill bots with 6mm steel armor, an exciting event this does not make.

basically emulate the "big guns" setup.
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Post Thu Mar 31, 2005 11:55 pm 
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Giant Robo
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 583
Location: Marayong NSW


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Quote: (El Bravo is a "high-level" bot.) LMAO and OMG I think I wet myself! Laughing
I am extremely flatered but El B would easily fit in this category.
Maybe I shouldn`t blow any delusions but he runs on 9.6v drill motors with Bunnings red wheels on 14.4v ( would do fine on 12). Servo/ micro switching with a drill trigger speed controler, Bike pumps, soft drink bottles, a $10 air duster handle and some inner tube valves. 3mm ali and 6mm polycarb. Air pressure; 100- 140 psi. Basically all the bits come from Bunnings, Super cheap and K mart!
Also, just ask any New South Welshmen what I know about electronics! (mmm, pic chips sound yum but I can`t find them in Woolies! Very Happy )

I would strongly suggest, as previously posted, the alowance of nicads as they come with your drill and do crap over the equivelant SLA`s

I have two new families coming to our next event and though I usually quote About $300 to get into the sport, other teams have managed with much less.
Another very relavent suggestion to people is anyone who has and old rc car in the back of the cupboard, ie; a two chanel radio, a nicad race pack and charger and your`e half way there!

WW motors from the wrekers are also cheaper than drills but don`t come with all the lovely accessories ( I currently throw away half the casing and can use everything else)

All in all a great concept that we will have to introduce to Marayong as I would hate to see brand new members not returning after being drawn up against Plan B or Jolt!

I learned a great deal fro R G`s robot challenge that El B was based on, even down to laminated wood wheels! (as seen on Screwy at Robo Wars 1!) and was envious that it mostly only occured in England. I read that it did happen somewhat in some WA schools but not here or open to 39yld boys!

Cheers,

Jeff.

Ah! wooden wheels with Clark Rubber tread! Those where the days! Laughing

Post Fri Apr 01, 2005 3:02 am 
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Glen
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lol ah yes love that peeling off tread :p
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Post Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:12 am 
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the moth
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
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Location: Melbourne


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The original drill packs are inaffective unless you have lots of them (cost) . Once allowed - "Some" people will replace the original "drill" nicads with far more expensive versions and how do you control that ?.
More expensive nicads lead to expensive chargers and then you start to need fans to keep them cool , all these things lead to a unfair advantage against people without them . there is a large vairation in SLA's so you can mix and match to suit yourself , and 12v 7ah sla's can be found very cheap ($12.5o) .
Effective attack means an attack that wins the match ....
Most matches are decided on points in case you havent noticed , not on total destuction . It sounds to me that some people still do not understand the intent or purpose of this comp . Excitement to the spectators is not what this is about - learning is the intent .

Interesting about El-Bravo - I didnt have time to study him at the Vic nationals as I was too busy with the sheduling . How much pressure is in the coke bottles ?

Must go do work ....
Later
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Post Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:26 am 
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kkeerroo
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Joined: 17 Jun 2004
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Location: Brisbane


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Could you please put a number on the difference between "high" and "low" pressure.

If you want to allow drill ni-cads then just say in the rules "un-modified ni-cad packs from cordless power tools". Don't over complicate things.

Has anyone suggested that it might be fun to mount targets on the robots. They could be made from packing foam and points could awarded for damaging them. The EO would supply them and stick them on with double sided tape. This would add a whole new demension to comp with more emphasis on control and not on whose got the bigger weapon.
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Post Fri Apr 01, 2005 7:46 am 
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