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ICE's at events (again)
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Rotwang
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I will try to make a list of make and model for the hydraulic fan motors.

As you have already worked out but so as not to confuse anyone browsing this thread the hydraulic fan motors run of the power steering pump.
As the electric fan packs are quite large on modern cars someone must have thought it was a good idea.
All I thought was you beauty; robot parts.
There probably not real powerful but I would like to ad one to my collection and run a few tests.
I think our plans for acid test 2 called for a little experiment trying to run the magna pumps as motors.
The fan motors wouldn’t pack enough of a punch for a middleweight.
As some new cars have already done away with that messy hydraulic power steering stuff in favour of a geared electric motor built into the steering column [who can say giant servo] the hydraulic fan motor might not be around for much longer.
Yes I have got my hands on one of those. Hmm; Lightweight control bot with a very strong grip. Smile

I have been thinking a bought the EFI pump.
It would work alright, only problem is 100psi isn’t a lot in hydraulic terms ok for a schremick or actuator, lifter but slower than air and messier.
No use for any sort of crusher.

O, one more thing, I am not entirely sure I could do that combination in a feather; it would have very thin skin, minimal drives, no starter etc.
I certainly wouldn’t give it a snowballs chance in hell of winning an event.

Polishing up the crystal ball it’s only a matter of time before electric air con compressors and electric engine oil pumps come along on new cars.

Possible electric power steering pumps if the electric ones don’t take over.
The reason for these changes is so car engines can turn off while sitting at traffic lights etc and start instantly when accelerator pushed.
The air con has to keep working and the engine needs oil pressure before the engine fires and has load in it straight away.
I see a few possible applications for some of this hard where but with petrol prices the way they are and hydrogen fuel cell cars already in the consumer’s hands who know? It mightn’t be far off.
Oh they might run at 36 volts. That’s the main reason they haven’t happened yet. A lot of car makers are ready for 36volt systems but that cost $ so they keep making things work on 12volts.
It’s a lot easier to open and close poppet valves with 36 than 12 volts and doing away with camshafts is one of there main goals.

Post Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:42 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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Mabee we should shift this thread to some where else .. im not sure how to do that ....Yes i was going to make vertex with hydraulic drives i converted two ford power steering pumps into motors and was going to drive them off the I/C motor with a single pump i was going to do speed and direction control via two rotary valves controled by a small electric motors and ibc similar to how ordinary power steering works via the steering wheel .
I also started desighning a twin hydrostatic pump to run two independant oil motors with in built speed and direction control via two servos on the pump , but it didnt get any further than my idea's book. it worked out easier to just go electric but speed control is still a problem with the high amps on vertex .

I like hydro static systems for drive as you can get nearly full prime mover motor hp.. to the drives at any drive speed (minus system losses of course ) as you are controling the systems rate of oil flow rather than dumping or limiting presure to control speed as in other hydraulic type drive systems.

I think for robots electric drive is the lightest uncomplicated system so far . If you want realy high torque for a crusher ect hydraulic cant be beat but it comes with the weight cost . but a well desighned and built hydralic system capable of high loads would probaly be a lot lighter then a sytem useing actuators and gears ect for the same crush power .

Post Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:58 pm 
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DumHed
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thanks Smile

Most EFI pumps have a pressure releif valve in them which can apparently be removed for more pressure, but I haven't tried it with any.

The nice thing is that the pumps are very easy and cheap to get Smile

Aftermarket ones are available around $150-200 new that'll push 255L/minute of fuel at decent pressures, peak out at 140psi, and they're about the size and weight of a drill motor and gearbox.

You're right about the pressure not being enough for super powerful crushers or anything but it could be a pretty light weight way of powering multiple small actuators.
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Post Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:05 pm 
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kkeerroo
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Back to ICE

Currently 10 meters away from me is something that will really scare you guys. Its an engine that will put out 10hp with the right gearbox. When the engineers just cranked it up to full power the whole whare house started to shake and people were coming from down the street trying to find out what was going on. And it only weighs 1kg. Twisted Evil

Its a turbine engine for UAV's. It puts out 40lb of thrust and has a sharft speed of 120000 rpm (No I didn't add one to many zeros). The guy running it has the full system running off a hobby RC setup and it only uses one channel for start up, throttle, everything. With the starter, fuel gearbox (not on the one outside) and all that I guessing it'll weigh under 4kg. And its noisy a hell.

Start thinking of it like this. Megabyte uses an Etek at 48V. Thats a bit under 10hp. An Etek weighs about 10kg by its self. Then there's the batteries for it, maybe 15 - 20kg more weight there. So Megabytes setup weight 8 - 10 times more then what is outside and produces the same power.

Can I have one? Twisted Evil
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Post Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:12 am 
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DumHed
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the problem is making efficient use of the turbine engine's output.

as a thrust device they're reasonably efficient, but you get a lot of frictional losses and size / weight issues when you add in the gearing to bring 120krpm down to something useful.

I really should rebuild my jet engine one day. It doesn't make any useful power, but it's damn good fun to fire up Smile
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Post Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:13 pm 
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Totaly_Recycled
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What is a UAV ?? all these abreviations for names these days make one quiet confused. What ever happened to writeing the full name of things ? Very Happy

Post Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:29 pm 
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kkeerroo
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UAV = Unmanned Areial Vehicle

Basically large RC planes that are being used by milatary force for reconnaissance. I also heard today that the police are interested in them too.

http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/uav.htm
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Post Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:56 pm 
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Valen
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"uncrewed" i think they are called now
possibly "unpersoned" ;-P
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Post Fri Aug 12, 2005 7:57 pm 
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WiperMotor



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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Not wanting to start a new post I thought I might put it here Wink

Just wondering if an ICE would be considerd in the ultibot/middle weight class? (outside?)

I'm thinking of another design but I jsut don't have a big enought electric motor to drive the thing.

Post Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:04 pm 
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Glen
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i couldnt see a problem with ice engines in ulti bot considering they can run flame throwers and the like.
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Post Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:20 pm 
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WiperMotor



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
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cool,I was thinking ultibot because they run outside so fumes woulden't be *as* bad Wink

but I read somewhere that middle weights can run out side but I'm not sure.

I need about 8-10hp so. . . . . .yeah Shocked

Post Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:25 pm 
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Glen
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i think there was talk of running the bigger bots outside with a polycarb bus stop type setup for the crowd. i think youd be looking at a few years at least before competition grade middleweights start popping up Surprised
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Post Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:50 pm 
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WiperMotor



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hehe. . . so the robots roam free and the crowd are the ones in the arena Laughing

Post Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:58 pm 
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Glen
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few quick questions,

1) are water cooled heads allowed on ICE motors ? small radiators as well..

2) im sure the answer is in the rule set if i could be assed to look Razz is the fuel weight included in the total weight?

3) methanol based fuels, the spare engine i have atm is running on a methanol 2 stroke mix.. is that allowed? and what about dry nitrous systems. also have one of those coming for either the bike or this project Razz
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Post Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:23 pm 
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WiperMotor



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dry nitrous system you say?

That sounds interesting Twisted Evil

Post Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:28 pm 
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