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Bane~Rotwang~Vic
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Rotwang
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Location: Vic


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Wooh! What a weekend.Shocked


It’s going to take me a little while to mentally digest all that input.

Lots of designs and strategies bubbling around in my mind and I have to try and work today, Dentist yesterday so I got most of the gear out of the van and did a few autopsy’s between eating ice-cream and sleeping.

Bane coped the most battel scars of our fleet, brand new it got to fight Jolt for its first fight; I opened with a box rush, Jolt managed to move sideways far enough so I just hit the wall where he was, then the announcer/judge started saying something and in my befuddled state I thought he was saying something about red lighting as I was in my old dragracer mode and had watched the tree come down and cut as good a light as possible.
Once I worked out what he was on about I lined Jolt up and set about ramming him into the wall trying to break or flip him, problem was Bane had almost no drive on one side.

I have a lot of old red wheels and a new pair for Bane was on the list but it didn’t happen, probably a combination of the overvolted drill revving fairly quick and the high polar moment of inertia with the long heavy pick and the dried out rubber tyre but the wheel was spinning in the tyre making it hard to drive and very slow to get the pick up to speed.

Still I really enjoyed the fight. Especially the last move when Nick counted my sit and spin by the old sit and spin, I figured he knew he was ahead and had nothing to loose by waiting me out so I came out of the spin, wedged him into the wall and the clock ran out with Jolt perched on top of Bane.

Matt drove it next as we forfeited our fight with Bender.

George has a history of getting the better of Matt and in a fight that I thought otherwise would have been fairly even Bane had another problem.

Rather than stick a self-taper through the wheel I outsmarted myself by pumping the cavity between tyre and rim full of urethane.

Bad move, not enough time to go off, the urethane oozed out making a clown wheel effect and bane lost all traction and vibrated and generally looked like it had square wheels.

Got to go part 2 tomorrow.
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Post Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:41 pm 
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Nexus
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quote:
Originally posted by Rotwang:
George has a history of getting the better of Matt and in a fight that I thought otherwise would have been fairly even Bane had another problem.

I was not aware of that, sorry Matt. The driver is the last thing on my mind. I fight robots, not people. Unless its Aaron of course Very Happy
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Post Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:38 pm 
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Knightrous
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quote:
Unless its Aaron of course.


Grudge match Mac Boi Cool
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Post Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:46 pm 
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Rotwang
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Yes Matt had a pretty good run with Ballistic in the old days but Pincher was the one that got under him and chewed on his works. Smile


Anyhow I think the losers rumble was the next action for Bane, problem is there were 2 rumbles and I am getting them confused, most significant thing that happened was Matt sticking Banes pick into the exposed works of Rat as it lay helpless greasy side up.
Thanks Matt, that did the most damage Rat has ever suffered.


My grudge match with Orbit is still fairly clear but I hope someone has video, Orbit got a good grip on the edge of the rim flipping Bane a number of times and damaging the rim enough to lift one of the wheels off the ground, severely slowing me down.
Anti VD mods programmed in for version 3. Smile


Wacky Race Matt was going good till he smoked a motor, took out IG’s eye as mentioned elsewhere.


All up very happy with version 2. Will experiment with different drills as in some 2 speed Ryobi’s and maybe different wheels.
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Post Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:26 am 
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Rotwang
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Following up on Aaron’s hint about the Roboteq I found this thread in the FRA forum
http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/forum.htm

This sounds exactly like the problem I was having with Bane version 1 with the overvolted rarer earth scooter motors.

At least I know the name of my pain now and it is “REGEN current surge”




Ian Mc Donald Advanced RoboteerUsername: Team_irelandPost Number: 434Registered: 11-2003 Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 8:53 pm:
Hi Having heard a few stories about Perm motors "Technobot Power Drive motors" buring out Roboteq's due to them causing huge voltage spikes when sudden reverse is used. I was reading through the vantec website purely by chance and found this: " In this situation the batteries act as a voltage clamp protecting the controller. The battery chemistry must be healthy for this to occur. Don't add a series diode in line in the battery line because it will block the clamping action and the controller will fail. Some users place a large 100,000 ufd "computer" electolytic capacitor across the power going into the controller, a good idea, to further smooth the input voltage and clamping action." Could this work with the roboteq's and possibly stop the problem? Any idea's? Regards Ian
Mike Lambert Intermediate RoboteerUsername: GrafixPost Number: 225Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 10:15 pm:
no.
Stefan Member RoboteerUsername: BugsPost Number: 99Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 2:55 am:
No, as in: it won't stop the problem.
Paul Cooper Intermediate RoboteerUsername: _m2Post Number: 175Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 3:10 pm:
Roboteq and Technobots are still working to find a robust solution to this problem, a problem which we now understand. The voltage spike aspect has been resolved but the curent spike is being worked on. To give you some idea, we estimate a current spike in excess of 2200A being generated by the Power Drive motor in regen. Two solutions exist, either cope with this current or reduce the current. Once we have a proven solution, the Roboteq will take some beating in the world of DC speed controllers. Paul
Mike Lambert Intermediate RoboteerUsername: GrafixPost Number: 231Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Sunday, September 26, 2004 - 9:49 pm:
See, ask a question and you shall get a good and honest answer from the man himself. Mike.
Kane Aston Member RoboteerUsername: KanePost Number: 58Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 9:59 am:
The Roboteq already takes some beating in the world of DC speed controllers!
Stefan Intermediate RoboteerUsername: BugsPost Number: 101Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:41 am:
Every pice of technoligy has it's quirks. There's no perfect speed controller, there probably never will be. At least not yet, mine is still on the drawingboard
Craig Danby Intermediate RoboteerUsername: Craig_antoPost Number: 244Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:12 pm:
Tanto can run the power drives Razz
james baker Advanced RoboteerUsername: JamesbPost Number: 495Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:17 pm:
just a suggestion, could a 1 farad power cap from something like a monster car stereo install be used to absorb the backwash of current. These regularly see over 2000A in top installs. not looked into this, just askin
Kane Aston Member RoboteerUsername: KanePost Number: 66Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 4:27 pm:
No, well it could. But that wouldn't really fix the problem.
Paul Cooper Intermediate RoboteerUsername: _m2Post Number: 176Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 5:10 pm:
James The 2200A current is between the motor and the FETs, putting a cap like this across the motors would just be seen as a short circuit to the controller. Putting it across the battery would not resolve this particular issue. Paul
Craig Danby Intermediate RoboteerUsername: Craig_antoPost Number: 250Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 7:53 pm:
Paul if u willing to replace the controller if you blow it up (not that they should) I'm willing to let you try the 48330esc on power drives email me if u interested
Kane Aston Member RoboteerUsername: KanePost Number: 68Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 8:57 am:
6.3lbs weight!!! 1 channel http://www.teamwhyachi.com/motor.htm That's 5.7Kg of speed controller for drive!
Craig Danby Advanced RoboteerUsername: Craig_antoPost Number: 257Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 12:48 pm:
yea and? call it an insentive to loose weight
james baker Advanced RoboteerUsername: JamesbPost Number: 499Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, October 01, 2004 - 4:12 pm:
thanks kane/paul, as I said, didn't look into it, just something from the old boyracer days
Knightrous Oxide Advanced RoboteerUsername: TeamvertexPost Number: 543Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 1:03 pm:
Maybe a small device that monitors the voltage on the motor wires what will switch the motor leads to a something that will burn up this voltage spike when braking until the voltage drops back to a level that the fets will take and then connects the motor back to the controller? I'm sure it could be done with a picaxe chip and some smart thinking. Just a brainstorm and I'm sure someone will pick holes in the idea.
Stefan Intermediate RoboteerUsername: BugsPost Number: 102Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 1:48 pm:
Euhmm.. hey you've got it all figured out I'm sure they'd have a solution if it where an easy fix. I'd try to use a higher switching frequency and a lower duty-cycle on regenerative breaking. But I'm sure they've tried all the easy fixes. Maybe they can't upgrade the cpld contents with the normal firmware upgrade software.
Kane Aston Member RoboteerUsername: KanePost Number: 73Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 5:17 pm:
You guys do realise that the maker of the Roboteq is working on this problem to produce a more refined fix!
Paul Cooper Intermediate RoboteerUsername: _m2Post Number: 178Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, October 02, 2004 - 6:45 pm:
Knightrous, the problem is current spikes rather than voltage. The Roboteq has built in hardware suppression against 'normal' voltage spikes and additional means of isolating the motor from the output stages built into the software. Some spikes from low impedance motors like the LEM and Power Drive have so much energy and are of such short duration that even this protection is not adequate. Fortunately this issue has recently been resolved and works well. The method of dumping regen energy into some switched load has been considered not just by myself but by other speedo designers I could mention and it is far from being a desirable solution. Stefan, it is all about the duty cycle but a lower duty cycle is what is causing the problem at the moment. You need to be able to detect when in regen and also measure the regen curent in the bridge but very few bridge designs appear to allow for this. You are also quite right that the firmware upgrades cannot alter all functions, some are embedded as you suggest in the PLD which includes how the bridge is controlled. We remain optimistic that a solution exists and I certainly do not mind suggestions, you never know it may just prompt a new thought process. Thank you to those who have emailed direct with suggestions. Paul
Paul Cooper Intermediate RoboteerUsername: _m2Post Number: 235Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 3:31 pm:
Following both successful bench and field trials (thanks to Dantomkia Mike), a new version of the Roboteq is now available - AX2550HR. The development has also led to improvements on the standard version. A new version of the software will be available next week (waiting for me to upload) which will amongst a number of continual developments now feature regen current monitoring. What this means is that the controller will send a minimum of 25% of the regen current back to the batteries until it falls below a fixed threshold. Once it falls below this threshold, the controller will bring the motor to a halt. Effectively this means the deceleration ramps may be paused during periods of high regen current. This is very unlikley to be even noticed with motors such as the Bosch 750W, it's there for LEM's and Perm Power Drives etc. There is also a small hardware mod of 4 diodes to cope with spikes during regen. All motors generate these spikes and the standard Roboteq can cope with these for motors except the disc type LEM's etc. There is a risk that a faulty motor could also generate these spikes. These diodes are fitted to all units shipping from 1 Jan 2005 but can be retro-fitted to previous controllers. Even with these changes, the disc motors (especially the Power Drive) still generate enormous regen currents so a new version is available that has twice the number of output FET's which means is can cope with twice the regen current as well as running cooler. Existing standard controllers can also be upgraded to the HR version. It would be unrealistic to say that the Roboteq is now unbreakable, but surely it must be close. See here for further details. Paul
Kane Aston Intermediate RoboteerUsername: KanePost Number: 123Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 1:26 pm:
Yipee!!!
Mr Stu ModeratorUsername: StuPost Number: 721Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 4:24 pm:
Yeah - go get a Roboteq in Behemoth now Kane, learn how to drive with a good accurate control speed controller - no excuses now - you can't blame the 4QD's for your driving now, hehe. Mr Stu
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Post Sun May 06, 2007 9:14 am 
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Rotwang
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After looking for the second version of Bane for the last 2 days I finally found him.

Believe it or not I actually bought some Colson wheels for him. Shocked


Slight problem; they wont quite fit so they will have to wait for version 3.

So after a session with the Hammer and Anvil due to Orbit just a little reassembly and he will be good to go. Cool
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Post Sat May 12, 2007 5:54 pm 
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Rotwang
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Just sorting through how many bots I can get going for Queens Birthday if it happens.

Thinking of putting the Roboteq in Bane 1 as an experiment.
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Post Sat May 12, 2007 7:48 pm 
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Rotwang
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Just got Bane 1 going with the BR6000 and Roboteq. Very Happy

Unfortunately the lighter RX didn’t quite compensate for the heavier ESC.

If I wont to get him legal its lots of drilling and there isn’t many places to drill or more money for M1’s.

I will take him to work tomorrow and have a good drive and think about it.
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Post Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:41 pm 
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Rotwang
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Just doing some careful checking, Bane 1 needs one wheel replaced due to deep cut in tire possibly from Cyclonite but I will need to watch the rumble video to confirm that and a few dents hammered out.

Bane 2 has a striped wheel and a broken gearbox and needs some panel beating thanks to Orbit in the Rumble.

All in all the pair of horizontal thwacks were easy reliable bots to keep going in a big event but they lack the ability to knock out or force tap outs.

The bane2 Orbit fight was one of my favorites, they have fought before and it almost looked like Bane got his pick through Orbits disc. Smile

Also I remember Bane 2 getting some serious airtime curtsy of Orbit in the rumble. Shocked
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Post Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:09 am 
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Rotwang
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Have been playing around with a gyro in Bane 1 and as time is running out I might give up on Bane3 for Robowars.

With my driving skills I think I will benefit from using one.

Bane3 which is hopefully the first to get some sort of melty brain function is currently just a POP using the GMC drills that free up space in the center for the traversing mechanism.

I am upgrading Bane 1’s axe from the $14 one to the $17 one as its head seems to be stuck on better and plan on trying the Sidewinder instead of the Roboteq to save a bit of weight and space.
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Post Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:58 am 
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Rotwang
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Ok, Bane 1 now has a Sidewinder and Gyro with remote disable and is running on M1cells. Cool

Next thing to do is adding a few spikes and fit the new axe.

As I think fewer bots are going to just drive into a spinning horizontal thwack in futures I think the spikes and just using the speed and pushing power and hopefully the new electronics will help my lack of driving skill and I will be able to make more technically aggressive moves.

Down side of that is if I don’t use the axe the judges can sometimes assume that that’s what I am trying to do and not succeeding, Bane2 tended to fall for this trick.

That’s what you get fronting with a Bot that only rarely can inflict a KO.

Only reason for entering Bane instead of Skeletor or one of the other more interesting bots is I will be flat out with pit work and Bane is usually very low maintenance and he has KOed Jolt the last 2 times they have fought but if Jolts not going to be there? Sad



Version 3 is still going to happen but not this time.
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Post Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:03 pm 
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Rotwang
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Bane is back in one piece.
A few changes; 8m1cells borrowed of Reboot, a sidewinder and a gyro that won’t turn on most of the time just sits there and blinks a little blue light at me. Sad
Fortunately there is a remote turn off for the Gyro to so I can still control him the old fashioned way.
Oh and one other thing I have blown the last of the extra weight points on, 2 Spikes borrowed of Bane 2.
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:21 pm 
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Rotwang
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Doing a few autopsies and mainly trying to charge some very flat batteries before they suffer any more damage.

Bane finished the event with a blown motor as we swapped in a charged 8-cell M1 pack near the end to give Tim a drive in a filler match.

It was too much for the very tired 18volt Johnson and it blew almost straight away, the IBC survived and everything is good.

Bane surprised us the first day,getting in the top 8.

I cant remember the details at the moment, hopefully when I see some video it will make some sort of sense.
Something about spinning like a flipped coin in a fight against a Co2 launcher and yet another Orbit Bane battle and I am pretty sure he fought Scissorhands and demon but that wasn’t all first day.

Lost yet another axe head to Nick. Smile

Bane2’s front visor needs panel beated.
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Post Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:35 pm 
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hope i didnt damage banes batterys running him as a filler. i sttoped when he was running slow. i may have been 2 late.
If so sorry Gary.
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Post Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:42 pm 
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Rotwang
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I have charged the 6 cell pack that was in him for most of the event its fine.

No problem Sean, M1’s don’t seem to mind being run flat as long as you don’t leave them that way for long.

I have killed a few in the past that way that’s why I am charging everything today before things get forgotten.

IG’s 2 packs were very flat just one of them to go and I think the 6cell M1 pack that belongs in Badger that finished up in Bender.

2 of the cheap LiPo’s are dead, they were in Bender and Rat but I will get to that in there thread.
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Post Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:53 pm 
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