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Interchanging armour/weapons
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Timothy Forde
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Joined: 16 Jun 2004
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Location: Vic ,Belgrave South


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Interchanging armour/weapons

I need to find out what the rules are for my next bot and what you can get away with ?
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Post Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:09 pm 
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Knightrous
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Joined: 15 Jun 2004
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Location: NSW


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As far as I can remember from RobotWars, the main rules concerning interchangeable armour / weapon are as follows:

- All armour / weapons setups must be announced prior to start of the event (Prevents people pulling out a secret weapon 10mins before a match) [EDIT: This means you have to show all your setups during tech checks at the event, no hiding a surprise setup until just before a battle]
- Robot's weight will be taken with the heaviest set of armour / weapons combination in place (Stops people rocking up with a robot with 1mm aluminium armour, and then replacing it with 5mm stainless and becoming majorly over the limit)
- In the event of two interchangeable robots fighting each other, but neither will choose an armour/weapon setup before their opponent, will have their setups put into a hat, where the judges will remove them at random to determine the setups. [EDIT: Not an "official rule", but was a solution to a large discussion over interchangeable weapons / armour on the RobotWars forums]

I remember following these discussions on the RobotWars UK forums and the FRA forums when the Razer VS Tornado conflict occured.
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Last edited by Knightrous on Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:10 pm; edited 2 times in total

Post Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:08 pm 
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Timothy Forde
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Location: Vic ,Belgrave South


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Thanks will be able to do what I want to no problem then but one thing I want to check
The differnt armor makes a small apperance change to the bot (nothing like a tornado cage) It dose not seem thats a problem but just checking
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Post Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:41 pm 
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Rotwang
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This question probably more relevant to Skeletor and Bender, they have quick change weapons and eventually will have a range of different ones.
Bender can have different armour but we are unlikely to swap that during an event unless one set is destroyed. Smile

Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:45 am 
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Daniel
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
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Location: Gold Coast


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Lucky we don't use the robot wars rules if these are true.

quote:
Originally posted by TDT:
- All armour / weapons setups must be announced prior to start of the event (Prevents people pulling out a secret weapon 10mins before a match)


I have never heard of this rule and it shouldn't be enforced. I mean I didn't know what weapons were on Skeletor or Stealth before the event and I didn't even know what type of robot Plan G was. So saying you must declare all interchangable weapons before a compitition when some people don't even tell us what robot they will be using doesn't make sense.
After all, you wouldn't tell people about cheese's plainer, so you just broke that rule.


quote:
Originally posted by TDT:
- In the event of two interchangeable robots fighting each other, but neither will choose an armour/weapon setup before their opponent, will have their setups put into a hat, where the judges will remove them at random to determine the setups.


This is wrong as well. I have never heard of a rediculus rule like this before.
I have heard of stories where robots with interchangable weapons and armour have had to fight each other and how the builders been constantly changing between weapon and armour setups before the fight in an attempt to counter the oppnents changes. This sounds just as interesting as the fight itself because the builders were running between each others tables to see what the current setup was and trying to change their robot to counter it before the time was up and the robot had to be put in the arena. I have also heard of builders putting blankets over their robots so the opponent can't see the current weapon/armour setup.
Pulling weapon/armour configs out of a hat would ruin the fun and make building interchangable weapons/armour pointless. Its a rule dreamt up by someone who has never built a robot.

quote:
Originally posted by TDT:
- Robot's weight will be taken with the heaviest set of armour / weapons combination in place (Stops people rocking up with a robot with 1mm aluminium armour, and then replacing it with 5mm stainless and becoming majorly over the limit)


At least you got 1 out of 3 right.

Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:29 am 
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Valen
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Joined: 07 Jul 2004
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Location: Sydney


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that last one also sounds stupid.
with our wheel cutter on and full armor we were over weight but the spike is lighter.
so with the spike we had full armor
with the wheel cutter we removed a side pannel. and replaced it with some 3mm ply (thanks NMO i think)

the bots get weighed going into the arena.
thats where it counts.

if its overweight at the arena door you loose.
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:38 am 
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Knightrous
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quote:

I have never heard of this rule and it shouldn't be enforced. I mean I didn't know what weapons were on Skeletor or Stealth before the event and I didn't even know what type of robot Plan G was. So saying you must declare all interchangable weapons before a compitition when some people don't even tell us what robot they will be using doesn't make sense.
After all, you wouldn't tell people about cheese's plainer, so you just broke that rule.


Its at the beginning of actually competition, not when the event is announced. This was conjured up because Tornado brought out there Anti-Razer cage the first time about 20 mins before the Razer battle, and the tech crew hadn't even seen it! Also, what do you mean we wouldn't tell people about Cheese's Plainer, you and quite a few others saw it at the HOC event before RoboWars! Rolling Eyes
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:52 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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My thoughts on these issues.

Interchangeable Weapons and Armour are fine by me in principle.. I like modular bots and clever designs.

The "Secret Weapon" technique is troublesome, especially if carried to extremes, and no tolerance will be shown to any robots that employ strategies like this. It creates too many potential problems for very little benefit to the competition fun.

To Clarify:
If you fit an additional weapon, any other device, or make significant modifications between rounds that have not been seen and pre-approved by the event organisers during our somewhat-casual (for now) Tech Inspections, then you may be required to be re-tech-inspected before fighting.

If you present your modified robot just prior to the start of a match and there is any suspicion that such modifications comprise a possible rule-violation, and there is no time for a proper tech-inspection, you will have about 30 seconds to remove your modifications, or you will forfeit the match.

Tech Inspections will be conducted when and where the EO requires without regard to any desire for secrecy by competitors.

Weight wise:
I would suggest you weigh-in at the start with your heaviest combo that you are likely to use. You can of course re-weigh your robot at any stage during the competition, but the "official scales" will be in open view to everyone.

You may be re-weighed at any time prior to a match, and again, if you are found to be overweight on your way into the arena, you will have 30 seconds from the time your opponent is ready to remove something to get underweight, or forfeit.

So, if you are open with your modifications or modules, no problem. If you spring any controversial surprises on us in the middle of a competition, expect to get booted out at the slightest excuse.
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:03 pm 
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DumHed
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I'm thinking my next bot will have modular weapons, but it'll probably start off with one for a while.

BTW - the only reason no one knew what weapon stealth has is that they didn't ask Smile
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:10 pm 
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Mel
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Interchangeable weapons and armour during a comp is not an acceptable rule to me.

Being secretive about what you intend to compete with also, shows a lack of faith in not only yourself, but your robot also and disrespect to other competitors.

If a bot changes armour or weapon type during an event - it's a blatant admission that it's not capable of winning the battle otherwise.

What one registers with in the first place, is what one should win/lose with in the end. Failing that - they remain a loser in my book. Twisted Evil
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:20 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Hmm, we have a note of dissention in the camp.. Wink

OK, While *I* like modular weapons, I can see Mels point of view about allowing significant mid-event changes to the robot.

BattleBots had a rule that in order to retain points from previous seasons, the robot had to remain in substantially the same configuration. Visual Appearance, Weapon Type, Armour Type etc.

Seeing as how you are expecting to maintain your place in the eliminations tree based on your previous fights..Should we perhaps apply this sort of rule *within an event* ?

IE. Is it fair that your robot won its first round with a spinning weapon attached and light/no armour when going up against a paper bot, changed to an all-around wedge with a spike on it with for round 2 when fighting an undercutter, and turned into an armoured weaponless Brick for the final against a bar spinner ?

Even if they were declared beforehand, this would seem to carry things a bit too far.

Other competitors opinions please?
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:11 pm 
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Nexus
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If u look at one of the best builders/drivers out there and one of the most respected, Donald Hudson. He does it regularly and I have never heard a negative thing about it. The opposite actually, he usually gets praised for having good ideas.

But I dont remember him ever having a spinning weapon, it s usually changes just to deal with spinners which I support doing.
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:22 pm 
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Philip
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I like the creativity of interchangable weapons and panels. I would not do this myself, but I would be interested to see others try to rebuild their robots within a 20 minute time frame.
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:32 pm 
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NMO
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Having acutally used a modular type of robot in the last robowars I of course support the modular weapon's,

However competeing against different robot designs takes a different approch to armour and weapons depending on the type of robot. There is not a lot of point trying to saw a bot in half that is made of solid steel or tyer however sawing a bot that has it's armour made of aluminium workls quiet well.

Also I changed to a wedge type bot about half way through the comp purly because my primary weapon was disabled in a fight. Would this mean that if you could not fix the damage you received in the previous round that you should enter the next round with a bot that is weaponless? if you where designing a weaponless bot you would of course include more armour as you would have the weight to do so.

Just my thoughts anyways.

Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:38 pm 
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Nick
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I think its quite acceptable to have interchangeable parts as long as the parts are relatively similar ie transfering weight between armour and weapon of the same type . Swapping to a whole new weapon clearly violates other rules. I would also approve swapping batteries and armour - it's all just adjusting an existing design in response to the prevailing conditions and might not even be called a modular design.

I was watching the robowars videos and thinking how Jolt would do better against some bots if I removed the front wedge and used heavier weapon teeth - that's not modular in the least, it's just basic tuning.

The extreme modular makeover that Brett describes might be OK if the bot was declared to be a chamelon right from the start. IMHO, having a highly modular bot compromises performance as it its very hard to do without going overweight and/or lowering strength. If you were fighting such a bot, you could be pretty sure what form it would take - just apply the rock paper scissor rule Smile
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Post Sun Jan 22, 2006 2:59 pm 
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