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Working with Titanium
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dyrodium
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Working with Titanium

Brought this up last night with Jake... does anyone have any experience, know any one who has done this? Supposably you would need an argon tank to weld in, but couldn't you instead just bathe the weld area in argon? A titanium frame would be way cool Very Happy Thanks in advance.
EDIT: Found this, any help? http://www.timet.com/fab-p27.htm
EDIT: Altered the title to match new posts.
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Last edited by dyrodium on Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:19 am 
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Valen
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basically all tig is done under an argon shield

if you want enhanced funkyness you do it in a "glovebox"
but that will use alot of argon.

for titanium you can get special cups that hang off the torch to keep the Ti covered by the argon untill it cools below ~400c or so

for the back side they make an aluminium foil shield and then flood it with argon.

basically you need a T junction on the argon bottle and another regulator. (unless you put the junction after your regulator and just put an orfice in that line so modt of the flow goes down the torch line)
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:47 am 
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Nick
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There was a long discussion about Ti welding on the RFL forum earlier this year, you could search for it. From what I read, you need to keep air away from both sides of the weld until the area has cooled quite a bit as Jake just mentioned. If the weld is too hot when it is exposed to air, it absorbs oxygen and/or hydrogen and becomes brittle. The weld can look great, right up to the point where it snaps.

The only place in Sydney that I found specialising in Ti welding is here: http://www.tinker.com.au/index.html There are probably more if you look hard enough.

Ti can make a great frame by itself, or you can combine it with aluminium to make assembly easier. Adding a thin skin of Ti over thick aluminium gives armour that is hard to scratch, can be screwed together and is relatively cheap. I am using 1mm Ti over 10mm aluminium on the sides of Jolt's next frame:



The good bit about this is that you can make it yourself and the parts are replaceable.
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:15 am 
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dyrodium
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lol but nick... Its the other way around for me, the Titanium is already 5.5mm thick Shocked
I'll give that place a look... might be willing to help me out. Smile
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:19 am 
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Glen
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might be easier to just have them bend you up some nice L brackets out of titanium then to weld it.
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:24 am 
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dyrodium
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Yeah... looks like they have a cutting service too.
I'll send them an email once my metal arrives. Smile
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:25 am 
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Nick
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Laughing Its even harder to bend Ti into sharp curves than it is to weld it! That link Angus found has a chart indicating the Ti has to be heated to 816 deg. C to get a bend radius of twice the sheet thickness ie an 11mm corner on an L bracket.
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:38 am 
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Nick, has Jolts blade had a go @ Ti yet? If so how did it go?

Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:38 pm 
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dyrodium
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LOL it had a go at itself XD
http://glen.botclips.net/Marayong%202006/Cobra%20vs%20Jolt.wmv
The wedge got ripped of by sheering the tool steel bolts, but i'd be interested to see a pic of how much damage it actualy took. Very Happy
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:45 pm 
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Nick
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The wedge got a royal beating! It looks like it was hit on one edge many times and was gradually bent up about 7mm on a corner, then finally it caught on the blade and the screws were ripped out. Before that happened, one screw hole in the wedge was quite deformed. For a 1.8mm sheet, I thought it did pretty well and I could probably heat it with an oxy torch and beat it back into shape again.
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:35 pm 
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Knightrous
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Bah to welding Titanium, just duct tape it Laughing
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:50 pm 
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dyrodium
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Would have been interesting seeing a roadkill vs jolt Smile Either majorly sparky or extremely short lived (a hit on the plastic instead of the Ti Laughing )
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:28 pm 
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Glen
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lol duct tape it XD angus has already done that
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:13 pm 
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dyrodium
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ROFL true!!! Laughing
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Post Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:18 pm 
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dyrodium
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Working with Titanium

Aright, many people may now, with all these nasty spinners around, may be considering using titanium (and other high strengh alloys like hardox or bizalloy) as armour on their bots. I for one have some experience with titanium, but would like to hear the tricks some people have found useful regarding cutting drilling and even tapping it. Laughing

Some of the things I have found that people may find useful:

<>
When you drill it, it's almost impossible to use anything other than a drill press, the force at a perfect angle you can get with a drill press makes it by far the most easy drill tool to drill titanium (unless you're nick and get holes waterjet cut!). Also with powerdrills it's tempting to use a high speed when drilling it, and this is a very bad idea, as i've experienced! Titanium needs a slower feed speed than steel if you value your drill bits and tools!

<>
In my opinion expensive bits such as carbide are not really nesisary unless you're doing heaps and heaps of holes. Cheapo bits tend to work ok, but they recieve a huge amount of wear none the less, so be prepared to need new bits soon!
And in my experience
AVOID TITANIUM COATED BITS WHEN DRILLING TITANIUM!!!
They're a gimmik anyway, but not only are do they seem to be less sharp than normal bits, and take longer, I had a nasty experience with one where friction generated from the titanium drilling really screwed it over, doing the "glowing metal" phenomenon and sending shreds of the drill bit everywhere! Don't use em, they're crappeh .
Smile

<> EDIT: And another thing, not sure if people know this but it scratches REALLY easily, which is odd as it's a very strong material in its alloyed state, and whilst it will completley trash carbide tipped saw blades, they can do a fair amount of damage to the titanium before they're destroyed (fair amount as in 1mm max deep scratches on corners...).

That's all from me at the moment, but perhaps Nick could shed some tips on this subject? I will need to cut my large Ti sheet soonish, and am not allowed to own an angle grinder, so that leaves jigsaw. Confused I've heard horror stories in this department! Sad
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Post Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:19 pm 
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