www.robowars.org

RoboWars Australia Forum Index -> The Marketplace

Kit Bots
Goto page 1, 2  Next

Post new topic   Reply to topic
  Author    Thread
Rotwang
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1589
Location: Vic


 Reply with quote  
Kit Bots

I have been giving the kit Featherweight bot a lot of thought and we talked it over a bit at Grantville.
Just thought I would post to get a bit of feedback.

Personally I like the unique creative aspects of bot building and the kit bot doesn’t appeal to me.

On the other hand if we wont to get our sport happening and make it easier for new builders to get a bot together and join in the comp especially if the SC based comp that Brett mentioned works out.

Quote from other thread

“And finally, I'm talking with a school principal who wants to get an inter-school Robowars competition underway and working on some ideas for a standardised "kit"bot that the various schools can build and then customise. Thats looking quite interesting and could be a good way to get some new teams forming up.”


There wasn’t really any consensus at Grantville but George and I seemed to basically agree that a drive assembly based on 100watt scooter parts that could be finished off as almost anything would be a good way to go.
It could run a Scorpion LX and a pair of 2.3 amp SLA’s this keeps battery charging and costs under control.

http://www.robotpower.com/products/scorpion_XL_info.html

If anyone wants to step it up an IBC and Nicads and a bit of an over volt is the go.

I am working on a chain drive upgrade, as the belts are the weak link with the scooter combos. This may become an option.

George has had good results with the Scorpion LX and I plan on getting one for the prototype.

The layout will be a bit like Reboot’s drive.

Haven’t worked out pricing yet.

Problem is it will only appeal to a minority of competitors as we all have such different ideas as to how to build a bot.

My priorities were for low maintenance long run time low current reliable.

It will obviously be tricky to steer requiring lots of skill or gyros but that can be an advantage if you are good.

If it’s reliable you can practice long enough to get good at driving. Smile

Any feed back appreciated, is a kit bot a good or bad thing for the sport, would you consider using one, how would you set it up, what weapon would you like to fit it out with etc

Post Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:03 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
Daniel
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 2729
Location: Gold Coast


 Reply with quote  

Sounds good.
A simple wedge would do. I wouldn't put any paticular type of weapon on it as that may end up steering the new builders in that one direction. If a simple wedge wasn't built too small then they could easily add whatever weapon they wanted later on. Kind of like what I did with Scaifier, but without so much plastic.

Post Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:39 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Knightrous
Site Admin


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8511
Location: NSW


 Reply with quote  

I like the idea of using the 100watt scooter motors, because they are reliable and they are low current motors. I agree, the belts system on them is the weak point, but at the same time, I think for a kit, ditching the big scooter wheels would be a good idea. you could replace them with some cheap 100-125mm plastic wheels and just bolt your chain & sprocket solution to.

Switching to a small wheels means you'll be able to use a lower gear ratio, probably 2:1 or 2.5:1 would be sufficient to keep the torque and speed levels up. With 100mm wheels, a small compact 2.5:1 chain reduction and the motor, your looking at nice, compact, reliable drive train, perfect for the beginner.
_________________
https://www.halfdonethings.com/

Post Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:04 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
dyrodium
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 6476
Location: Sydney


 Reply with quote  

Kit bots seem a good idea.
It is my high priority concept to do a kit bot concept for my major design project (although now i've seen a normal bot CAN be done...). I was going to simply use 12v drills as they're compact and can make an "all in one" unit new builders would apreciate. THe idea would be to provide parts to make a variety of wedge/ram bots, however the system allows for the user to make their own parts, as well as instructions on how to hack your own drills, make your own panels/battery packs and so on. Although a relay controler like the one Aaron was working on would be optimal for keeping costs down, i'll probably be settling for another IBC for the prototype. This allows users to use more drills, and otherwise do upgrades, as well as the unlikelyhood of them smoking it Smile
I've already started an early cad, but each "kit" would be made up of a variety of laserjet cut panels, two mounts and two pre hacked drills, as well as wheels. My aim is to bridge the gap between kits like lego mindstorms and the world of home made stuff. This is a sort of inbetween thing. An aim is to keep the full kit under $500 sale price. This would include a simple but good quality 2ch AM set, the controler as well as enough parts to make a first robot. Seems pretty good to me.

Eek sorry bout that Laughing

Regarding the belt weakpoint, consider getting a higher breaking strain belt from a place such as smallparts.com.au? Or are they a rare size made just for scooters?
_________________
( •_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:21 am 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Rotwang
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1589
Location: Vic


 Reply with quote  

Thanks for the impute Guys. Lots of good points there.

The laser cut and fold idea is what I had in mind for the scooter combo, if you work on a drill based design that would be really good as it gives a lighter option.

I will stick with the scooters.

By the time a whole class gets through thrashing a bot around the quadrangle it would need a new set of drills.

As it is it would probably need new wheels.

I don’t think the Scorpion would be happy with drills in a 30 lb bot either and the SLA’s wouldn’t last long.

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:21 am 
 View user's profile Send private message
Totaly_Recycled
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1346


 Reply with quote  

I was also thinking of building kits a couple of years ago. Its hard to come up with a relaiable (cheap drive speed control batery combination ) that would suit beginners .Apart from useing iBcs and other expensive controlers .also geting a cheap material that would handle battle conditions and also be easy to work with for beginers is also a problem . I still have a few idea's in mind but even doing the cheapest kit posible i still see it too expensive for most of the new builders who are mosty young teenagers and who would probaly want to build their own deshighns any way .

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:41 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
dyrodium
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 6476
Location: Sydney


 Reply with quote  

At the moment i'm looking to make this kit aimed at a different "sumo" or none KE weapon comp, they could enter them in a real comp, but yes, it would get mangled fast. It would, however, make for a good workshop. Smile
_________________
( •_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:11 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Rotwang
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1589
Location: Vic


 Reply with quote  

The people Brett is talking to started of looking at Carlo’s kits so anything we do is going to look cheap. Smile

But starting with nothing it still gobbles up the best part of a grand pretty quick.

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:20 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
Knightrous
Site Admin


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8511
Location: NSW


 Reply with quote  

I know that it is a lot of money, but I would definately recommend a Spektrum DX6 radio for any schools/universities getting into combat with kits. It will save them the enourmous headaches a lot of us have been though. Plus once you have the TX, you just bind more RX's and use the 10 model memory function Razz

Carlo kits Shocked Gloiven!
_________________
https://www.halfdonethings.com/

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:25 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
leo-rcc



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 231
Location: Hoogvliet, Netherlands


 Reply with quote  

If you are worried about the creative aspect of the kit, why not just make a baseplate and various markings so they can decide for themselves what type of robot will go on top of it? So the kit would only make a rolling chassis, the rest is up to the builder.

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:53 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
Rotwang
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 1589
Location: Vic


 Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by leo-rcc:
If you are worried about the creative aspect of the kit, why not just make a baseplate and various markings so they can decide for themselves what type of robot will go on top of it? So the kit would only make a rolling chassis, the rest is up to the builder.




Yes that is really what I am trying to do, a versatile drive assembly that will work with as many weapon designs as possible.

Brett has already made the case for the DX6:)

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:04 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message
dyrodium
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 6476
Location: Sydney


 Reply with quote  

I think I've sorted that problem of originality out. The "kit" is composed of various generic panels and joiners (think nut strip only slightly different Smile ). And simple to follow cad based instructions on how to use these bits to make around three simple bots (wedge, box and something interesting probably). But, also accompany it with a book with info on how them to then go on to make their robot original, such as including pieces they made themselves in their bot.

Rotwang, if you have msn we can put our thoughts together, two heads are sometimes better than one. Very Happy I've put a lot of thought into this, and will most likely be doing it for my MDP as mentioned, so there'll also be a huge amount of research, documentation and *choke* money going into the prototype kits.
_________________
( •_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:36 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Grotto



Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 38
Location: Morisset NSW


 Reply with quote  
Sales Options...

Its probably a bit early for this suggestion, but have you
thought out any different "packages" to give different price
ranges for schools/people with tight budgets?

Say supplying the same kit components, but 'missing' bits
that the buyer already has on hand, or cant afford just yet?

Say having a baseline kit, with no batteries, RC or motors.
And selling the bits separately at slightly higher prices than
if included in the midline kit.

Thats for people like me who already have some parts on hand,
or already have in mind directions they want to mod that mean
our parts arent required.

Also selling the 'optional' parts in varying types, say selling
cheap AM rc and also selling spektrums, also selling drill
motors and scooter motors if we sell the drills with a mount
to give it the same foortprint as the scoot motor.
As long as the ESC in the kit can handle either motor, there
shouldnt be any problems.
_________________
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what WE make."
........CEO Cyberdyne Systems

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:43 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dyrodium
Experienced Roboteer


Joined: 24 Aug 2004
Posts: 6476
Location: Sydney


 Reply with quote  

That's what I was thinking. Although I wouldn't be sure how much laserjet cut parts would add up, the drills can be had in large amounts for about $10 ea, and that also supplies batteries. So... If it is sold without the IBC (that adds $315 to the price!) It could probably be done for $300 or so. Cheap AM radio packages cost only $60 or less. Again, both kit concepts would benefit from a cheap controler option... Smile
And yeah, I think the whole thing should be customisable. Eg, more/no drills, no controler double this panel and so on so forth. Smile
_________________
( •_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

Post Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:48 pm 
 View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
leo-rcc



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 231
Location: Hoogvliet, Netherlands


 Reply with quote  

Dutchrobotgames, the organisation that I am part of here in Holland, has 2 featherweight (FRA/DRG rules 12kg) kits available.

The base kit conains:

RC rset (Jamara Compa-X4 and receiver)
2 Servos
Plugcharger
2 RC failsafes
2 wheels
12 AA batterij (recharchable)
Removable link
Cables
Sheet Polycarbonate of HDPE 6 mm
2 omni-wheels
4 relays
4 microswitches

Option 1:
2 drillmotors (12V, can be overvolted)

Option 2:
2 Car window motors (12V, need to be overvolted for descent speed)
12 Hawker D-cellen (2V 2,5Ah each)

This set (either option 1 or option 2) went for €250,- incl. VAT and postage. (420 Aus dollar i think).

Technobots sells the Zeobots featherweight kit.

1 x Base plate
2 x geared motors (21 watts power @ 12V) and wheels
2 x Electronize speed controllers
2 x Ball Transfer Unit
1 x controller mounting plate
Wiring, mixer, link and connectors

Note, no TX or RX is added here.

Costs: £ 258,15 (Roughly 635 Aus Dollar).

These are the kits that I know of.

Post Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:00 am 
 View user's profile Send private message
  Display posts from previous:      

Forum Jump:
Jump to:  

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2

Goto page 1, 2  Next

Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 

Last Thread | Next Thread  >
Powered by phpBB: © 2001 phpBB Group
millenniumFalcon Template By Vereor.