Just thought i would start this thread so we can have this discussion in here instead of every ones build threads.

I am all in favour of all kinds of bots but the way the high KE spinners are developing it only realy leaves wedges and bricks or well armoured flippers as the other choice .

Mabee wedges have to have an active wheapon and make it that high KE spinners are baned ( lol ) then we would see all types of bots like lifters clampers crushers and other inevative robots appearing .... or just remove damage points from the judgeing and concentrate on style handeling and skill of owning the opponent in matches .....

Last edited by Totaly_Recycled on Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total

flipping is fun
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The Engine Whisperer - fixer of things

nudgebotics all the way.

when there is a wedge on wedge fight half the builders leave to go do stuff.
thats voting with your feet.

A flipper is a weapon. it meets the "joules per second" idea.
"clamping" another bot isn't going to look very cool.
Crushers (eg razor) seem to fall into the "too lethal" category for me, a high KE spinner is going to damage your armor, bend bits of metal that kind of stuff. crushers and the like go for the "expensive innards" which I don't like.

How many bots were removed from competition by jolt and the like? None that i can think of. So all this talk of high KE spinners destroying your robot seems to be not borne out by the numbers. All I have seen people have to do is wield a hammer and their bot is back up and running. Heck our bots are the most succeptable to spinners in the comp (aside from punk ;->) well when we don't have the steel bolted on anyway.
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

Out of all the robots that entered the arena the one that caused the most damage and work for the competitors was 'Reboot' a low KE drum

yes 'Jolt' did some damage (more to it's self) A hole in IG, was about the worst I can remember.

'Punk' against a vertical spinner took the most damage. but that was MDF had some Ti for that fight

Then there is 'Devastator' now when a robot lands after being thrown like that, they take a big hit on landing.

But 'Reboot' a low powered KE drum continually causes more damage / faults then any other robot I have seen to date in Australia and it doesn’t discriminate, brick's, Wedges, High KE spinners, Vertical spinners, Lifters, etc.

It just vibrates other robots apart. mechanical, or electrical then competitors have to find the problem. That some time takes quit awhile.

I would not like to see to many more wedges if any more, unless it has an active weapon.

there where a couple of wedge against wedge fights that looked like they where doing a waltz. (Arron you where one.) That isn't good for the sport if there are to many of these fights.

It is ok if there is a couple of fights like that in an event but if there are to many problems will occur.

No spectators turning up. (to boring)
No new competitors. (to boring)
Competitors leaving the sport (has got boring)
etc

quote:

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way the high KE spinners are developing it only realy leaves wedges and bricks or well armoured flippers as the other choice

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OK, on second thoughts, I dont agree with my earlier suggestion that we could alter the rules to favour or disfavour ay particular bot type

(Sometimes I post then think about it some more, so I'm allowed to change my mind after hearing other competitors well-put arguments, thats what forums are for, to let us hash out these issues )

I mainly wanted to pass on that the main negative feedback I had received from the Audience was aimed towards the slow wedge vs wedge fights, and as Jake said, the builders vote with their feet and agree. So just hinting at skilled builders that they should make some effort towards including a weapon is probably all that is really required.

It is "Robot Wars" after all, and is usually described to newbies as "Big RC Cars *with weapons*". Take away the weapons, and its back to funny shaped RC Cars.

The other sometimes-commented on negative feedback (usually from small boys) is that there are no "House Robots" or Fire. SideTracked are considering building some house robots again, but mainly to use as entertainment between rounds, or possibly to make use of the arena between events with some canon-fodder bots (Like Leos's or Punks deliberately ablative armour).

I generally oppose the idea of house robots in competition fights, because it skews the fight unfairly and goes a bit too far in the show direction, as well as making "stars" out of the house bots rather than the competitors since they can look a lot cooler with no weight limits. They could be fun for exhibition style filler matches though where entry to the arena with a house bot would be voluntary (like a rumble) rather than mandatory to win.

I think discussions of this nature are interesting though, so please dont stop expressing your thoughts just cause I backed down on the anti-wedge idea..

I wish there was some way to merge threads in phpBB as there were some good points made in Mikes build thread that might not carry over here. In future if a discussion is veering too-far off-topic, post a message in that thread asking an admin (I'll have to show you how to do it Andrew) to *split* the topic rather than create a new one, since you cant pull posts from the old topic into an already existing one.

Garys point about Paper/Control bots being the natural enemy of rock/wedge bots is a good one.. I'll have to put some more effort into Scoopy-Doo-Two do help balance the current rise-of-the-rock phenomenon..
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

i can see both sides of the argument ,SORRY has now swapped from a saw blade to a spinner and mitches robot is a wedge .
i still think a battle between wedges are great ,seeing a wedge getting under an opponent and slamming it into the arena wall is great to see makes just as much noise and rattle the insides of your opponent as much as a spinner hit
as for bricks ,need i say more than look at 'singularity' and 'tornado'
i dont care what people build, if there is 6 wedges at an event and i get to battle all six of them then thats great .to me it just means the judges need to pay a little bit more attention to other aspects of fighting other than smashing bits.
i suppose i just cant help being compeditor bias ,to me its about fighting one another and i really dont mind fighting 20 bricks and 20 wedges , as long as i get to battle everyone of them.. twice if possible lol.
i just love the arena time
what i see as the number one element is building robots that are reliable and can compete many times in a day that to me is what makes a great event, as was the case last weekend.
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yeah but 20 wedges that you can walk faster than would get pretty dull.
If the wedge can *slam* somebody into the wall then alls well and good, otherwise you might as well be playing chess.
I know theres others who will disagree but its not the #1 spectator sport.
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

ill say it again and again and again ,i dont build combat robots to keep the people watching happy ,i build them to win battles
the sad thing about the whole combat robot concept is it was created to entertain the masses.. i would like to have seen it started out with folks battling in crappy arenas and under ground garages and then be introduced to the masses. maybe attitudes would be different .
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quote:

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ill say it again and again and again ,i dont build combat robots to keep the people watching happy ,i build them to win battles

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Like a roboteer in Holland said:

"Its robot wars, not RC bumper cars."

I'll be the first to admit that I am a huge fan of Bonx (the King Cobra clone or was it the other way around? ) but having 2 bonxes in a arena would bore me to death, since i would know it will go the full 4 minutes and we would have no clear winner.

The other way around is also no fun, 2 huge KE spinners meeting head first, one bang, 2 robots dead. Fight over in 5 seconds, 3 of those driving towards eachother. Yuo get that WOW effect at first, but you cant fill a entire show with that.

You need to find a balance.

Thats why I favour axes. They dont do huge amounts of damage even though they can sometimes, but they are always real crowdpleasers because of noise and action.

Now I feel there is also another choice to be made. Do you want this to be a spectator sport, or a sport for roboteers first? As you well know, there is a huge difference. If you want paying spectators to keep there interest, you will have to cater to the show aspect of the sport. Otherwise we will revert to the same level as RC car races in the Netherlands, loads of fun but virtually no-one will watch, so no income to cover expenses.

That about sums it up. And we've said this before too..

You pay-to-play, build an arena out of your own $, hope you can find someone who is willing to have it in their back-shed and keep it underground.

or you make it sufficiently entertaining to watch so other people pay for you to play for them. Its your call..

If a majority think I should stop trying to get the sport out in front of people, just let me know.. I'll be glad to kick back and work on my Car or other projects while you drive around in circles in your back yard.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

Come up to Sydney and drive around in Jeff's backyard - just as much action as anywhere in Australia and eight times a year. I still enjoyed Robowars though - I'll be back again.
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Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion

Having underground or back yard events are great but I would not be in this sport if that was the only type of event held.

The robot I have, 'Little Brute,' it could not compete in a shed in the back yard.
If something went wrong with the weapon and it came off the robot. I would not want to be in its way.
Also seeing 'Jolts' teeth coming off, I would not like to see that happen in a back yard shed.

Unless someone is willing to build a lexan lined shed so someone like me could compete then fine, but I don't think that will happen.

In my option unless it is in an arena built like the one at 'SideTracked' it is far too dangerous to compete with high KE spinners.

That leaves events designed to entertain the masses. Like at 'SideTracked'
and this is done to try and recover the cost of building an arena.

The arena is not cheap at over $2000 for the lexan $500 for the steel plus building time and the roof. This is not a cheap exercise. and this excludes all the staffing cost, promotion, facilities cost, etc

That also means you need variety to entertain the masses. If there are too many of one type of robot the masses will leave. Events like RoboWars will stop and competitors will also leave.

Another one is some competitors enjoy displaying there robot in battle to the masses and if the masses go so will they.
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It's all about the destruction.

Ahhhh, all the shed arenas have polycarb! In fact Jolts teeth have come off and hit the polycarb right in front of me!

I think whatever keeps the builders happy is best. For us in NSW we like to have as many events as possible, the more battles the better, personally I would prefer to fight ever 6 weeks in the shed than once or twice a year with an audience.

Though of course in NSW and QLD we enjoy both options!