quote:

---

Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
I take it that anyone who has a problem with events past, is prepared to volunteer to be a referee/judge/safety inspector for the entire of the next event ? No ? Then you know someone who will ? No ? Perhaps you'd like to offer to pay someone to do that job then ? No again ? Then just what are you suggesting we do apart from bitching about it wthout a solution ?

...

To everyone else, I agree that in many events past, count-outs, seperation, pinning and other aspects of match control have been below par, The problem is simple.. we dont have any non-competitors who are prepared to volunteer their services to be judges & referees who are also sufficiently familair with the rules & proceedures.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by chrisjon65:

....its hard enough to get someone sweep the f@#$ing floor at our events cause everyone has their heads up the arse of a robot

---

I don't see why it would take so much to organise a referee. You just need someone who is clued up with the rules and doesn't have a robot currently fighting. You just share the job around like we do with our judges, but I don't think that the ref should also be a judge because they would be too focused on the technical aspects of the match and not the overall picture. As for a saftey marshell and stuff I think that for smaller comps that would also be the responsability of the referee between fights (it should be the responsability of everyone to look out for each other).
As for failsafes, yeah sure, you must have them. But if a robot is damaged during a fight and goes out of control you can't blame the builder for not thinking of everything the might go wrong. And if a robot is out of control at the end of a match due to damage I don't see anything wrong with the robots driver volenteering to go into the arena to rescue thier robot. Nobody wants to see thier own robot thrash itself to pieces when they know how to stop it.
As for those who like the idea of pinning just think of how you would feel if the situation was reversed and you can only watch for a minute as someone hacks away at your pride and joy.
_________________
Get Some!!!

Secretary of the Queensland Robotics Sports Club inc.

well said there Mr Kerrison.

At future marayong events say Lindsey or somebody else who is not competing be the ref of if need be another builder how is not competing in that match be a ref. that was the pin time rules etc are applied and everybody is happy.
_________________
Andrew Welch, Team Unconventional Robotics

When I was young, I could run into an arena with an out of control robot and be safe. I wonder what you will consider safe in another twenty years.

Robots are replacable people are not.
_________________
So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems

Yeah, but robots like jolt, orbit and plan b wern't around...
Like when woody wedge and when cataclysm went into a spin during the rumble, i just ran and propped it up and turned it off, likewise that happened for WW... do WE need to buy failsafes?
_________________
( •_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■)

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

That was actually a metaphor for the dangerous things I did with cars guns chemicals etc.

We do need failsafes but don't ever think that a robot is safe because of one.
_________________
So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems

Well being the driver of KO and being stuck longer than 30 seconds in the scoop at robot wars 2 and the rye event if anyone can complane it's me

Really though no point worrying about it now, just worth makeing a note of for the future and warning people to keep an eye on the time.
That and my 3mm steel armor helped a bit, might be more anyoed but a ibc have been choped in half or somthing but it hasn't so lets just forget the past and just work on controling times from now on.

As for idea's, well we normaly have an announcer so if we have someone near them timeing the announcer can tell the robots when they need to seperate. Then we need a rule on what counts as being released
_________________
Team KO

having an announcer at events should come in handy.

Maybe for each event up north and down there we could get something setup with a amp and a microphone or something.
_________________
Andrew Welch, Team Unconventional Robotics

quote:

---

When I was young, I could run into an arena with an out of control robot and be safe. I wonder what you will consider safe in another twenty years.

Robots are replacable people are not.

---

Scoopy doo: On both occasions that a seperate was called for at Rye - scoopy was involved for the same reason . The forward base plate on scoopy had slightly seperated from its mounting and the other two bots had a similar problem with their lower armour . Both "pieces" of metal became entangled and NEITHER robot could do more than twitch . To the crowd this appeared to be Scoopy trapping the other bots - but in fact it wasn't . When I seperated the bots on both occasions ,substantial force was required to seperate them and I eventually had to put my foot on one and force them apart . Scoopy is not desinged to entrap , but both incidents were predominatly caused by low ground clearence and battle damage.

I have taken over the running of Victorian events in a attempt to reduce the many problems that are present in our compertition at this point . The cost of this is simple - I cannot "run" my own robot during events , because there is way too many other things to keep under control at a public event . I give my own robot over to a volunteer team that realy only see's "vincent" at a event and I have to ignore their problems and needs untill the event finishes . At the last event (Rye) my team nearly destoyed Vincent in the pits (accidently) mainly due to lack of experiance with him . When they came to me for help - I had to send them away knowing that would probably cost my team the event . When you "run" a public event - it needs your complete focus and you really need to "think on the run" as many more things happen in the background than you think .

Volunteers are hard to come by , and those who do are gratefully appriceated . To run a event you need many people and resourses . Builders can help by "cycling" their bots before I have to nag them - every bot that isnt ready makes our job harder . If you want to help - I'll find you a job .

Many problems are present in all our competitions and as each event progresses - we will target our problems one at a time .

I will interperate the "entrapment /stuck rule" as follows
The only person who knows whether the bots are stuck or they can release , is obviously the drivers . so the call for release must come from the driver first - it will no longer come from a judge first . The driver calling for release needs to make sure the judge KNOWS he has called for it . We will start a 30 sec timer and the other bot has to release you and move away (over 30cm) ,then it is free to attack you again . If the bot isnt released before 30 sec then the match will be stopped and the bots returned to their start points on opposing sides of the arena (This is basically a penalty for causing us to stop the fight and enter the arena ) . Entrapment / Stuck will not apply in the final 30sec of a match (obviously). Hopefully we wont have to police this to heavily. To aid in this solution I will EVENTUALLY get buttons fitted to the drivers positions and slaved to a timer clock / light combo so every one clearly knows . "Tap out" buttons will also be fitted , but all these things cost money and take time to build / test / fit .

Arena Obstacles
During the Rye event empty barrels were present in the arena . One of the highlights of the Rye event was a empty barrel being flipped on to a robot during the finals - the crowd roared . In fact the crowd roared just as loud as they may have if a robot had been dismembered . Action not dismembership is what the crowd loves . The large barrel could obscure too much of a drivers veiw so it will be taken out in competition events but the two smaller barrels will remain at Rye and one barrel at Sidetracked . Some people may argue that this disadvantages spinners , but in reality they can be used by all bots . A well driven pushy bot could put the barrel into a spinners weapon , but a well driven spinner could ovoid this and attack anyway . In fact a well driven spinner could use a barrel to restrict the escape room of their oppenent.

Time forfeits
Assuming the minimum time between fights has passed and your fight has been called to the arena by the organisers , then you will need to be there . If your opponent is in the arena and you are not there within 60 sec then the option to forfeit you will be given to your oppenent . If you are not there within 3min you lose . We will apply this rule with a good understanding of the problems that can present themselfs at times. But you need to understand that competition means exactly that . A well built robot and a well prepared team will not find this a problem . No competition allows the unprepared - unlimited time . Make sure you have enough batteries for a event and find a way to charge them fast . Build your bot so that it can dissasembled easily and have minor repairs completed quickly . As the year goes on we will police this more heavily.
Enjoy
_________________
Some people pass cars - some people get passed by cars

Battle damage is part of robot wars and it is very unlikely that the fail safe
would be one of the things damaged unless the robot was totally destroyed.

In which case the robot is scrap metal.

The fail safe would be the last parts of a robot to be damaged, and if it was, there is a very slim chance of it failing in an unsafe manner.
ie. having a run away robot.

All fail safes I have seen or worked with, have failed in a safe manner.

Would anyone like to try and stop my robot if it became a run away.
due to it not having a fail safe.

I don't care if you do or don't have a weapon. Get a F'en failsafe installed then there will be no need for all this crap.

I don't care if it is the owner getting injured due to there own stupidity.

But at evcents there are others around that don't know how you have your robots configured / wired and every one else around are the ones in real danger.

I do not like it when others in danger me. Due to there own stupidity..

Yes there are some issues and problems with the events. But as far as I am concerned, I think every one that has oganised an event has done a excelent job and should be applauded for their efforts.

This is not an easy task they have taken on. Especially when it is a public event like at SideTrack and Rye.

It is easy to sit back a complain about something. But look at it this way, who out there would oganise an event if the people currently doing it stopped.

Problems will be found as events go on and they will also be resolved as events go on.
_________________
It's all about the destruction.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ajax:
Battle damage is part of robot wars and it is very unlikely that the fail safe
would be one of the things damaged unless the robot was totally destroyed.

In which case the robot is scrap metal.

The fail safe would be the last parts of a robot to be damaged, and if it was, there is a very slim chance of it failing in an unsafe manner.
ie. having a run away robot.

All fail safes I have seen or worked with, have failed in a safe manner.

Would anyone like to try and stop my robot if it became a run away.
due to it not having a fail safe.

I don't care if you do or don't have a weapon. Get a F'en failsafe installed then there will be no need for all this crap.

---

Since it has been brought up..... all future events here at the House of Carnage will require weapon locking devices -as mentioned in the rules. I don't mind testing of drive systems (on raised-up bots) in the pits BUT no weapons testing outside of the arena .
I'm deadly serious on this guys.
BTW the HoC is open for use (to anyone) 8am-6pm.... 7 days. Any testing, R&D, etc. is welcome - and can be done at full tilt against targets... and in private.

If QLDers want a permenant ref, I could scare up one. (who usually does table-top wargames - the bot rules are no where near as complicated as wargamming rules) but be warned... he refs in black and white - i.e.- to the printed/published letter.

In the future, there will be a dedicated safe testing area attached to the 'pit shed' for testing prior to fights (or while one is on in the arena) and for scrutineering before events (weighing and fail-safe testing).

Buttons/lights showing 'tap-out', 30sec timed 'pinned' and a 'move-or-lose' (mobility test thingy) is a brilliant idea... QLDers - anyone electronically minded want to help me install such systems... (since I know as much about electric stuff as the last caveman )
_________________
There is no such thing as excessive carnage.

The Rotwang team is and has from a very early stage been committed to fitting effective fail safes to all our robots and we wouldn’t be doing things like the display at Rye the weekend before last if they were not required for our Vic events.
We are trying to actively find new builders and promote the sport, if our sport was organised in a dangerous way we would not wont to be involved.

Its one thing to turn up to an event as a competitor and freak out the other people there with your dangerous antics and equipment.
From the sound of it you were quite properly disqualified because you entered the arena when your robot was out of control.
Don’t you get it?
You just can’t do that!
I know wot it feels like to be in that position, at Robowars 2 Frag welded relays on its weapon twice and melted down 2 battery packs when the chain derailed jamming the motor. But I just had to just stand and watch, but that’s just part of the game and you better come to terms with it.

If someone tried that trick in Vic I would be quite happy to see them out for a number of rounds.

A couple of pics of the display at Rye and yes we handed out flyers
http://robowars.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=770
http://robowars.org/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=771

There are going to be cases when a fail safe does not function as it should.

This is something that will happen. It is the attempt to reduce the posibily of it happening.

If a failsafe does not function as it should, as in Philip Taylor case. I would recomend that anyone that has this happen do exactly what Philip did.

Find the cause and fix it so it will not happen again.

Thanks Philip for taking the time to find and fix the problem.

There can be some instances that the problem is hard or not found.
That is when you check everything very well and go over all your wiring.
Just by doing that can reduce the risk or fix the problem with out you even knowing..

If you are still not sure then ask someone else to have a look at the problem for you.
I wish I was more readily available to help others on such matters, but being in SA does make it hard.

Relays are another issue and this will always be a problem. I have seen many relays weld there contacts together, it is something that just happens, not matter what the rating of the relay is. (Under rating relays will increase the chances)

So follow Rotwang exsample and just let the batteries run flat, and enter a safe arena, to collect your robot.
Even if you see it destroying your robot. let the batteries go flat first, then enter..

Remember this is not just something to take note of for events.
Most accidents happen at home and I have heard of to many on here.

Testing motors have them bolted down, to something that will not move.
Pneumatic's have your cylinders bolted in place before testing them.
10psi with the correct setup is dangerous.

Never hold motors or pneumatic's in your hand for testing.
_________________
It's all about the destruction.