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Philip
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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Location: Queensland near Brisbane


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RFL FRA rules

From the WA thread....


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
The RFL Rules are here
http://www.botleague.com/pdf/RFLTechRegs09.pdf

the FRA rules are here
http://www.fightingrobots.co.uk/documents/buildrules.pdf

The RFL rules were released a long time before the FRA rules were published.. have a look at them both and tell me the FRA rules *weren't* taken from the RFL ones.

I have no idea why they would want to deny it. Some silly political motivation maybe ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yes they do look very similar. I have no explaination. I have put the question directly to the FRA to give them a chance to speak for themselves. Do you know what rules the RFL based theirs on?

I have asked the FRA to respond to the fact that the FRA rules are very similar to the RFL rules. So far, there has been no official coment.

Brett, have you been able to find what rules the RFL rules were modelled on?

Post Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:16 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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As far as I know, the RFL rules were written from scratch by a group of different Event Organisers who started the RFL.

It was felt that other rulesets were getting too complicated and picky about unnecessary details, rather than illustrating general safety principles, so the RFL ruleset was written with simplicity and intent in mind, rather than specifying everying to the 'nth degree.

Also they gave permission for any other event organiser to use their ruleset freely and modify it (in the relevant areas) to suit your own event. Which is why I based the RoboWars rules on them.

The only request they make is that you acknoweldge that your modified ruleset is based on the RFL tech rules, perhaps the FRA has a problem with this and hence tries to deny any commonality between them ?
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Post Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:00 pm 
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3Faze



Joined: 26 Jun 2004
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As you've probably guessed, I'm by no means the FRA's yes-man. They did write their ruleset in conjunction with the RFL, and early versions strongly acknowledged this. However, more recent versions haven't. As I see it, this is an issue between the RFL and the FRA, and really isn't anyone else's issue.

Fact of the matter is, the FRA rules are based on the RFL rules, which are based on, and don't acknowledge, the BattleBots rules, which are based on, and don't acknowledge, the Robot Wars rules.

It's the same sport!

Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:20 am 
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Philip
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3Faze has obviously already told you that you were right, but let me post the reply that the FRA kindly gave me

The FRA rules were originally written with the support and involvement of the RFL to ensure that there was some similarity between rules in the UK and the US.

The benefit of this co-working is born out by the fact that UK teams travelling to Robo Olympics in March can run in the US but to our UK FRA rules rather than changing.

So yes there will be a similarity, but to suggest that there were plagarised is just stupid. If you look at early copies of the FRA's rules it stated 'written in conjunction with the RFL' or something similar on them. Also anyone with a copy of the documentation from the FRA World Champs will see on page 7 that it acknowledges the RFL's involvement in the original FRA rules in plain text.

So there is no dishonesty Philip, the fact the FRA worked with the RFL on the rules is a published fact, and the reasons for wanting harmony between the UK and US rules is obvious !

Do you really have nothing better to do than to sit and throw rocks at a group of people working hard to keep roboteering going in the UK ? Sounds to me like someone just trying to stir trouble.

Really... get a life

Ed

Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:46 am 
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ffej
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quote:
So there is no dishonesty Philip, the fact the FRA worked with the RFL on the rules is a published fact, and the reasons for wanting harmony between the UK and US rules is obvious !

Do you really have nothing better to do than to sit and throw rocks at a group of people working hard to keep roboteering going in the UK ? Sounds to me like someone just trying to stir trouble.

Really... get a life

Ed


Damn, harsh. He took your question way too seriously I think . . .
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Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:57 am 
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Spockie-Tech
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Sounds like a touchy subject.. Rolling Eyes I have no idea who "Ed" is.. but you probably should just leave 'em alone there Philip.

Its stuff like this that is the main reason why I am seriously opposed to the formation of any "organisational entity" in Australia.

As I have said before, my experience with clubs and power-organisations (which is quite a bit) has shown me that they *always* turn into political arena's where power-struggles, intrigue, factions and the whole stupid mess occur again and again.

They spend more time holding AGM's, Elections, writing minutes and worrying about their "image" than actually working on the thing they are supposed to be about. Meanwhile the do'ers are out actually doing things, and eventually the "back room boys" have to try to stop them because they are making them look bad or taking people away from their power-base.

Keep the fighting in the Robot Arena, let the people who actually get stuff done just get on with it without any interference, and dont let the paper-pushers have a say in anything, or they will turn it into *their* game rather than yours..
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Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:33 am 
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Knightrous
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I believe that would have to be Ed Hoppit from Team Storm. He's a flamer at the drop of a hat.
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Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:47 am 
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Glen
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that is so damn confusing.

before you said philip that they denied any similarities, then it that post they acknowledge it completely, wtf?
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Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:10 pm 
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Philip
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I will leave it alone. Atleast until these burns heal.

Any how there is the answer. The FRA rules were based on the RFL rules and the FRA acknowledged the RFL at the time and that is the end of that.

Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:13 pm 
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Philip
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quote:
Originally posted by Glen:
that is so damn confusing.

before you said philip that they denied any similarities, then it that post they acknowledge it completely, wtf?


Sorry Glen, I don't recall saying that they denied any similarities. I did say they told me the FRA rules were modified from the Robot Wars rules.

This is what was told to me;

The original RW rules were used but where ever possible they were relaxed. ie bottle sizes. RW rules were good but designed for arena use. We have to have a rule set that hopefully allows safe build, testing and opperating of potentially very dangerous equipment.


This was posted by Mike Lambert

On an unrelated note, I have noticed how nice and polite the roboteers are on this forum.

Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:52 pm 
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3Faze



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quote:
Originally posted by teamvertex:
I believe that would have to be Ed Hoppit from Team Storm. He's a flamer at the drop of a hat.


Yeah, he was also a driving force behind the FRA, and the bloke who tried to run the World Championships last year. Yes, he is a flamer, to the same extent that I am. We both want to see this sport progress rather than wither and die, and about 50% of the time, we agree.

To an extent, I agree with Brett, and have some big problems with the FRA (Fighting Roboteers' Association, as I normally call it), not least of all that they don't seem to actually do anything. My general view of things is that I believe, in principle, that an organisation LIKE the FRA is needed, and I generally won't comment beyond that.

Robowars, like Roaming Robots, and BlackTop Productions, exists for a different purpose to the FRA. They are Event Organisers, the FRA ain't. Which brings us neatly back to the point of what is it the FRA do?

Post Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:20 pm 
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Philip
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I incorrectly attributed the above quote to the FRA. The quote was from Ed and he never said or implied that it was a FRA statement. My apologies.
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Post Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:43 pm 
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MrStu



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Hiya im new to this forum, Yo Rolling Eyes

Just thought i'd copy something over that Paul Cooper (Guy From Team M2/Technobots) posted on the FRA forum, which maybe worth you guys reading....

"Philip, as far as I am aware, Ed is not speaking on behalf of the FRA and did not say that he was. This is an important point as his statement above may well be correct but his tone is counter-productive as can be seen by replies to yours and Steve's posts on the Robowars forum.

Paul"

----------------------
Mr Stu

Post Sat Jan 15, 2005 11:13 pm 
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3Faze



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G'day Stu, welcome to Australia cobber Laughing

Grab yourself a Castlemaine (don't mention Fosters) while I throw another steak on the Barbie.

Post Sun Jan 16, 2005 6:08 pm 
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Spockie-Tech
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Ahem.. You all would know my views of organisations in general by now, but I couldn't help myself.. This just popped into my inbox and I accept responsibility for any flames that may erupt due to my tongue-in-cheek posting in this thread.. Laughing

---

A major research institution has recently announced the discovery of the heaviest element yet known to science. This new element has been tentatively named "Administratium."

Administratium has 1 neutron, 12 assistant neutrons, 75 deputy neutrons, and 111 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312. These 312 particles are held together by a force called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called peons.

Since Administratium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected as it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact.

A minute amount of Administratium causes one reaction to take over 4 days to complete when it would normally take less than a second.

Administratium has a normal half-life of 3 years; it does not decay but instead undergoes a reorganization in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.

In fact, Administratium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganization causes some morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.

This characteristic of moron-promotion leads some scientists to speculate that Administratium is formed whenever morons reach a certain quantity in concentration. This hypothetical quantity is referred to as "Critical Morass." You will know it when you see it.

---

Now, who thought an association was a good idea again ? Razz
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Post Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:51 pm 
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