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Nice to see 2 competitors with bots that do a lot of damage wonting to change the rules to make it harder on the people who wont to build bots that don’t.

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Style has been discussed to death in the past, and it usually ends up in an "We agree to disagree".

It is deliberately not defined and is intended to be a tie-breaker when damage control and agression are roughly equal. It is supposed to be up to the individual judges opinion. It could be anything from a paint job to some funky shaped curves on the design, or a particularly clever move.

To me, Gyro dancing isnt stylish, although to some it might be. Stylish bots in my opinion are things like Pinscher and POD. SideWinder was cool. Pinscher grabbing Arachnophobia in mid-spin at RoboWars 1 was a stylish move..

An interesting point-of-view was given by Tim's Dad (who was judging at RoboWars Brisbane). He considered Retread running out of flame fuel mid match to be very unstylish and marked it down heavily.. comapring it to a soldier running out of ammunition whilst still on the battlefield - a mistake almost guaranteed to get you killed, although not many people had thought of it that way except him.

So, there is no answer as to what *will* be considered stylish. Just be yourself and make some effort to enahnce something unique about your bot. Put a Psycho mask on the bot, polish the aluminium until it gleams, Give it the Mad-Max-Rust-Tim look.. whatever does it for you. The idea is to encourage people to build things that make people go "thats cool".

Remember, they are tie-breaker points.. You cant win a match with a bow-tie if you get beaten all over the arena.. only if the match is very close will the style points make a difference.. So dont worry.. if your bot is so tough, you shouldnt have to wrry about some nancy-boy-bot beating you just because its more stylish..

Style points are not going to be removed for RoboWars events.. They are a judging criteria that the Vic builders like and we're keeping them.. You guys will just have to wear chicken suits or something if you cant give your bots a bit of pizazz.. either that, or if you think damage is so important, knock out your opponent, then the style points wont matter.

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Mark (the manager at SideTracked) was a bit inconsiderate towards the builders at the last event.. He naturally is focussed towards keeping the show entertaining to the crowd and isnt a builder, so he doesnt appreciate the importance of repair and recharge time for the builders. I will mention this to him to try and be nicer to the competitors this time around..

..But

I will only guarantee you 20 (or was it 30) minutes from the time of your last fight completion to the start of your next fight. If it has been 30 minutes since you last fought and you are suddenly called, regardless of whether you were warned or not, tough.

I've said it before, as far as I am concerned, your *first* priority after a match is to prepare your robot for its next match. <period> No chatting with people about how the fight went, no taking photos of each others damage, watching the next fight or anything else. Get your pit hangers on to do that stuff.

Once your bot is *ready* to just turn on and go (no, hang on while I refit the batteries and/or panels), *then* you can relax and socialise and spectate. If you choose to use your R&R time for other things, that is your problem.

Even if you were told you had 15 minutes, then it is suddenly changed to 2 minutes because the fight before was forfeited or something, if 20/30 (I'll clairfy that) has elapsed since your last fight, you can be called at any time, warning or not, and you must be ready to fight or risk a forfeit.

This event, I will arrange for the scheduler to note down the time that your last match was completed, and 20/30 minutes from that time, you are on borrowed time.

Sorry to be harsh guys, but you try squeezing an event of this size into 2 days and see how easy it is. If your opponent can do it, you can too. no excuses.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

The match timing in Brisbane was OK but could have been better, as Andrew mentioned. We had an event at Marayong this year where we had a set timetable of a match every X minutes (can't recall if it was 20 or 30 min). As the elimination tree progressed, we wrote in the bot names and everyone knew exactly when their next match was going to be. If there was a match cancellation due to damage, we just skipped that timeslot.

At a public event you just need to have a demo match to fill in the cancelled matches and both the competitors and the public will be happy. Everyone knows when the next action will happen and they can come & go without missing anything. Even the Sidetrack management might prefer this, as the crowd can go out and spend money elsewhere for 20 minutes and return at the correct time.
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Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion

I'm just going to register roadkill, but if my new robot is ready, then i'll swap them. Hope that's OK.
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Yes, thats fine. Experienced builders with a track record of showing up to events with working well built bots just need to reserve a spot.

@nick. I will try and nut out a pre-arranged schedule before hand to do what you suggested.. one of the things that makes it hard is I never know just how many bots will actually be there until shortly before the event. _ I think I might have to charge a "late entry" fee to stop people popping up with bots a few days before the event this time..
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

How about just tell them they won't be able to compete... that'll be a kick in the a** for most builders enough to bother registering a few weeks early!
Also out of interest, how well does that top netting hold up against vertical spinners and high power flippers? THere'll be both this time.
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Back on the judging, how about we drop the whole running into walls counts against you thing . . . in an arena shaped like Sidetracked, it makes steering a fast bot a hell of a lot easier. Also, when the arena floor provides little traction, box runs are the only way to push your opponent, you might as well be running a pair of XU1's if you wait till your touching before hitting full stick, since no power goes to ground.

With the whole style thing, why on earth should presentation count ? Apart from being completely objective (eye of the beholder and all that), is it really fair for a robot to be winning a match, even before it gets into the box ? Fine, give style points for skill, and instances where something impressive has happened that the other criteria do not cover, but don't give points for looks, that's just stupid . . . My two cents.
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Jeff Ferrara
fb@ffej.net

ffej.net

OK, I am not trying to get rid of the style points and I am taking all your reasoning onboard but I just want some consistancy. To be judged on something I have no control over or even awareness of is very frustrating and to have three seperate and basically secret definitions is just not on!

To say that style is just for tiebreaking is incorrect; you mentioned that Retread was "marked down heavily" for running out of gas, which is clearly a big influence on the final score. If this is just for tiebreaking, style should be limited to just plus or minus a few points or percent. Will the judges be clear on that?

The scoring system and rules are generally to ensure fairness or to promote some aspect of the sport, but this style score is totaly arbitary and doesn't enhance the sport in any way, as we don't really know what to aim for. If we had ANY clear definition, then we could take the sport in that direction and make it better.

It's all very well to suggest we add a coat of paint and I am happy to add plenty of bling to Jolt if I was SURE it would score. With the undefined style, what's to say that some judges will find that garish or pointless and actually mark me down? We just don't know...

IMHO, secret, undefined scoring will lead to bias and disputes. I am not trying to get rid of style, just to define it!

Perhaps if we altered it to 'Visual styling' . That would work for public entertainment and give the builders and judges something clear to aim for.

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I will try and nut out a pre-arranged schedule before hand to do what you suggested.. one of the things that makes it hard is I never know just how many bots will actually be there until shortly before the event. _ I think I might have to charge a "late entry" fee to stop people popping up with bots a few days before the event this time

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Originally posted by Rotwang:
I think one aspect of the Judging procedure that from some perspectives seems slightly odd is how it is possible for a bot to win even though 2 of the judges chose his opponent.

Some might argue that the reason for 3 judges is to give a nice simple unanimous or split decision assuming the judges are obliged to make a decision.

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Originally posted by Spockie-Tech:
An interesting point-of-view was given by Tim's Dad (who was judging at RoboWars Brisbane). He considered Retread running out of flame fuel mid match to be very unstylish and marked it down heavily.. comapring it to a soldier running out of ammunition whilst still on the battlefield - a mistake almost guaranteed to get you killed, although not many people had thought of it that way except him.

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Originally posted by prong:
I really like the way we judge here in NSW, everyone except the drivers gets a vote, the builders are the most experienced! Though I do not think this will work in this case as there might be too much unitentional state bias.

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Originally posted by Philip Taylor:

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Originally posted by prong:
I really like the way we judge here in NSW, everyone except the drivers gets a vote, the builders are the most experienced! Though I do not think this will work in this case as there might be too much unitentional state bias.

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I like this idea, but I would not be concerned about state based bias. I would rather trust someone from another state than have my fate in the hands of someone who may not know the judging criteria.

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Back on the judging, how about we drop the whole running into walls counts against you thing

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Control means the bot does what you want. the "elasticity" of the sidetracked arena means that bouncing off the wall is *way* better than stopping and turning around. Its like the ropes in a boxing arena (perhaps a wrestling arena lol).One of the judges at the QLD event marked people down heavily for hitting the walls, thing is that was what i (and others) wanted to do.

Gymnastics has pre-defined criteria and programs and they can be judged against the program. RW is allot more free form. Perhaps the contestants could (pre match) tell the judges their strategy? or perhaps post match say what they were trying to do?
(to cover the "i'll try and hit him on the sides, oh it turns out i can out wedge him so i'll take advantage of that instead)


A thaught for schedualing, Perhaps do a round robin for a pre-defined period, Then elimination of the top 5 bots at the end based on total wins to get the placings?

If there is a tie between a few bots to get into the elimination then audience based wildcard entry? Or ties are broken by total points achieved through the round robin?
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

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bouncing off the wall is *way* better than stopping and turning around.

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