MM i think you would have to be cool and spaced out to use one if they load any thing as fast as their web site you linked ive tried it two differant times and waited 10 minutes each time and only half the page has loaded think i will give them a miss

My Quicktime isnt uptodate with the Mac sites video clips, limited me to just audio when I went there..


should watch this - Capital LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsWSyBL64u8&mode=related&search=

are you high?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1-ywndVNc

With MAC's success of continuously reinventing the wheel but with a new paint job, as seen with the iPod (Hard Disc MP3's existed before the iPod), MAC are now trying to reinvent another product (wheel)...

I present to you...



The MAC iPood
It will probably revolutionize the way we crap and according to some MAC users "With a MAC, you can be more creative", so expect some creative crap to follow...
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https://www.halfdonethings.com/

Dont forget the IP.. Another lawsuit for Jobs and The **AA's

http://www.theregister.com/2004/03/09/bofh_protecting_bodily_waste/
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

got myself an emac today. it's sooo sweet. But didn't come with garage band. that was a bit disappointing. Oh well i'll jsut get it myself.
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The Falcon watches from the shadows. Waiting to POUNCE! or is that cats? Dunno either way. SCARY!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdjmN26QfNs

To be fair, having worked with an Mac, i do recognize some of his frustrations, but for the most part he was really reaching for arguments. I for one never had as many system locks or shutdowns as he portrais.

But then again, my Windows and Linux machines also run flawless, so if I do have a system crash, i could mark it on a calender as a special event.

Now if only I could get the wireless to work on my ubuntu I'd be a real happy camper.

@Valen: If Windows crashed as many times as you depicted, most businesses would have gone for a new network solution years ago. Our network is running Windows 2000 servers in Active Directory, assisted by Windows 2003 servers for services like Exchange and MS-SQL, and an AS/400, and a Redhat (not Fedora) server for a CRM program. So far the only time we restart servers is when we need to update software (and we dont do that often, if it works dont touch it) or if we know there is going to be some major consturcion work done and dont want to risk power failures.

In the server room behind me, which is the european branch of our company, there are 7 server running, the one with the shortest uptime at the moment is 3 months.

The choice for Linux on embedded machines like routers or dvd players/recorders is not one of stability, but one of money. Embedded windows costs money (a license), embedded linux doesn't. You only need to invest in the hardware, not the OS. That means more profit. Simple. Nothing wrong with profit, so the choice is a good one.

I wonder what the longest up-time for a windows server is? I recently upgraded the RAM in a server that was running NT4 - when I looked over the logs, it had not been rebooted since mid 2005 . I wonder if it will get another reboot before it gets retired? I find that most Windows crashes on our company machines are down to shody drivers, not the core OS.

I found another reason I don't like linux tonight: when I downloaded MySQL, there were three downloads for windows and about 20 downloads for linux, several for each version they supported. Having so many versions of an OS is a very bad thing in the commercial world! When we employ a Windows support tech, we look for experience in Windows itself, plus applications like Exchange or IIS. When we want a unix tech, we have to find someone that knows AIX, Solaris, Redhat, and SCO (at least). These techs are hard to find and more expensive, plus they usually just fumble their way through at least some of the versions thaey are supposed to know.
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Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion

Diversity is both a weakness and a strength.

A unified environment does make management easy, and also makes universal damage easy. A monoculture is much more succeptible to attacks than a multiculture is.

I agree that there are a bewildering array of distro's with their own quirks, but the Linux world is aware of it and working on converging the areas like package installation and other tricky tasks.

Its not that big a deal though.. Fords and Holdens have the temperature controls in different spots on the dashboard, which means you might fumble about a bit when jumping from one into the other, but it usually doesnt take long to figure out the differences once you have the basics worked out.

Any mouse monkey can be trained to operate Windows and get their MSCE by memorising proceedures and paying their licence fee, but are these the sort of people you want running your servers ? An Admin who knows what a subnet mask means instead of putting in 255.255.255.0 is much less likely to make dumb mistakes because "Thats the way they were taught to do it" instead of understanding what it means

AIX, Solaris and SCO ? IBM is driving Linux now, Solaris has 0.25% market share, and 70% of Sun hardware supposedly ships with Linux today.

I do have one client who runs a SCO server, but its about to go in the bin and be replaced by a RedHat server. Why would anyone give SCO money these days ?

Not having every machine running identical software can be seen as strength in diversity, or annoying nonconformity, depending on your POV.

If your business chooses to operate such a wide range of OS's, that isnt Linux's fault, besides which, those OS'es you mention are nearly all Unix flavours that predate Linux, so blaming Linux for their disparity is hardly fair.
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Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people

Businesses don't don't usually choose to run multiple versions of unix, they pick applications and the vendors just happen to only support it on one flavour of Unix /linux - which is hardly ever the flavour your other applications prefer . I had this happen just recently with one vendor only supporting an old version of Solaris, while the hardware support company for the server only wanted to support it on the latest version - a major shitfight is continuing...

My point is that as developers start using Linux as a platform for major applications and as the Linux distros fragment and age, the support will get harder. The reason we still have SCO systems is that they were set up years ago, then the supervisors and developers gradually left and now the applications are too hard to move. Imagine how it will be after 10 years of linux evolution.

The strengh in diversity dosn't work in a business environment; that's saying I will put out five different versions of linux and probably only one will get hacked at a time . What a business will really do is put out the same version of Linux (if they can), then harden it and surround the servers with security.
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Australian 2015 Featherweight champion
UK 2016 Gladiator champion

I don't know when I have said windows was unstable?
I ran win2k server as my firewall/router/webserver for about 2 years.

As far as desktop OS goes its probably better or at least even with linux. Though really its not an OS crash i have so often as an application failing.

What i don't like about windows is the fact that they want me to pay them squillions of dollars to do things that i can do with linux for free.

Eg to setup a mail server.
Windows 2003 licence $$$
MS Exchange $$$$$$
CAL's for any user on the network if the machine is a router/firewall as well $$$
Then i have to attempt to set the thing up, and screw you if you aren't using domains because you got home edition XP rather than pro. (i believe pgina would be a nice dodge for that btw)

Then if you want to virtualise it so you don't get totally hosed next time a virus comes out you need to buy windows and CAL's again.

Linux

download the nice XEN image i have 99% made
setup your users through the web site.
your done, note the lack of $$$$ signs.

Oh want to use the big boy toys and migrate it live to another host? sure no probs (unlike vmware)
Not that i am hating on VMware. I am installing 2 server copies of it now for a client so they can run their mail server and PABX on their desktops instead.

You want the complicated version of how to install the mail server?
insert ubuntu server CD
choose LAMP install
once its finished add my repo to your sources list for some nice packages
apt-get install dbmail dbmail-mysql mysql-server

got webmail?
apt-get install squirrel-mail

You want to get old school? follow my how to compile from source on the dbmail wiki.
For me as somebody who came from a windows backround for many years, installing and using linux for a mail server is so much easier than windows.

VMware and XEN images of a base mail server install should be up tommorow somewhere. (dbmail btw, gee you think my attack profile is small enough, did i mention greylisting? and if i am keen i tick the box on my ipcop firewall and it'll proxy everything and run it through clamAV and spamassasin as well)

For small/medium business the $1500 for windows server makes a difference. As does each CAL they need to buy.

once the "one app" that ties a company to windows, becomes cross platform I see a big move away from it. None of my clients are willing to move to vista until they have to.
When i tell them that only the PC's they have baught in the last year will run it (provided they aren't dells with integrated video that you cant upgrade) and it will cost them the OS cost plus another $70 512mb of ram and a new $70 video card and perhaps a CPU if they got a celeron last time round (if you don't need to replace the MBO too because theres no point buying a P4 anymore (btw 1GB ram, mid range conroe and a real good mbo will set you back ~$700))

This is why i am writing my "one app" in Python. I can offer an IBM style "integrated solution" for ~$600 a seat with new PC's $850 if they want new LCD screens too.
That includes PABX, work from home, email, IM and any other thing they want.

Except for a nice software (non web based) calander, cmon mozilla get yer butt into gear and complete the killer app replacement. (oh and if it will sync to microsoft PDA's so much the better)
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

hmmm i think i rambled a little there.

Virtualisation and virtual appliences i think will negate a decent amount of the problems nick was describing.

I see applications moving back into running like they owned the machine basically.

Rember the good old days, insert the disk turn the power on and there you go.

your going to see things like mail servers and all the other stuff going to be released as a distro rather than a set of apps to install into your current server.

Your going to see stuff like RPath and the like where somebody gets an off the shelf minimum core, adds the bits and bobs they need to it and their done.

No need to worry about version dependancies or any other crud, its just a plug in item.
Plug it in, visit the config web page and your all set. (With some LDAP lovin for the back end?)

IPv6 here we come ;->
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

quote:

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Originally posted by Valen:
I don't know when I have said windows was unstable?
I ran win2k server as my firewall/router/webserver for about 2 years.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Valen:
your router/firewall is running linux and its been sitting under your bed running 24/7 for how long now? If it was windows you would have needed to reboot it 15 times just to get its head out of its own ass.

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still true ;->
It needed rebooting about once every month or so for security updates.
my firewall needs it about once every 6-8 when there is a new kernel update for it.
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Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets

quote:

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Originally posted by Valen:
IPv6 here we come ;->

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