Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 3842
Location: Queensland near Brisbane
Immobile
What constitutes immobility?
Is a robot immobile if the drive on one side fails? If the robot can still drive in semicircles is it mobile? Can a criteria for judging immobility me made or can immobility only be judged on a fight by fight basis? _________________ So even the rain that falls isn't actually going to fill our dams and our river systems
Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:39 am
kkeerroo Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1459
Location: Brisbane
2.8.1. Knock-outs and Mobility
The referee will declare a knock-out when the robot does not show any controlled translational
movement after the opponent has ceased attacking for 5 seconds and fails to show controlled
translational movement on request by the Referee.
The robot will be issued a 10 second countdown. If the robot continues to be unable to show
controlled translational movement and the opponent still does not attack, then at the end of the 10
second countdown the robot will be issued a loss by KO.
Any attack by the opponent, or controlled translational movement of the Robot will reset the time
for this determination.
2.8.1.1. Controlled Translational Movement
Movement is “controlled” is the driver of the robot can move the robot across the arena floor by
manipulating the remote control, or if an autonomous robot can move across the arena floor on its
own. Orbiting a fixed location on the floor does not constiture “controlled translational
movement”. The referee shall decide if movement is “controlled”. As with all official decisions,
the referee’s call is final.
_________________ Get Some!!!
Secretary of the Queensland Robotics Sports Club inc.
Yeh. This was something on my list of things we need to mention to the MCs for next time.
We also need to make a distinction between not moving caused by the arena (Stuck on the floor) and not moving because the robot is broken. IMO _________________ Steven Martin
Twisted Constructions
http://www.botbitz.com
Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:33 am
seanet1310
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: Adelaide
Imobalised is the most questionable call often note made.
Sidetracked in especially hate it _________________ Remember to trust me, I am an Engineer.
perhaps paint a spot or 2 on the floor. If you cant make it to the spot your out. _________________ Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets
Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:06 am
Knightrous Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8511
Location: NSW
To me, immobilized is when the robot cannot move at all (not including weapons), no drive what so ever. Losing one side of the drive and wriggling around the arena is still showing mobility, regardless if it's limited.
If you lose one side of the drive, and your still moving, the opponent can keep smashing you. If you don't like it, tap out or stop moving _________________ https://www.halfdonethings.com/
Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:14 am
Nick Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 11802
Location: Sydney, NSW
I managed to still win a match at Robogames after losing a drive - perhaps its down to the "after the opponent has ceased attacking for 5 seconds" phrase. If your opponent doesn't back off, you are still moving enough with one drive.
That implies that you can win by taking out one wheel and then backing off - if the other guy can't chase you, its a KO. Doesn't seem very sporting...
Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:33 am
shreddy
Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 518
Location: Wantirna, Melbourne
watch the bane vs badger fight for a good example of this. one wheel got ripped out however I could still 'translate' bane across to badger. if I had simply done circles then that should be immobile I rekon. _________________ http://au.youtube.com/user/crustydemonsully
The day I stop giving 100%, is the day I stop competing
Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:18 pm
Glen Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 16 Jun 2004
Posts: 9481
Location: Where you least expect
quote:Originally posted by Knightrous:
Losing one side of the drive and wriggling around the arena is still showing mobility, regardless if it's limited.
after all thats the premise a meltybrain bot is built around mwahahha.
im happy for a robot to be considered mobile with one side dead. pretty well every robot still can move somewhat like that. that and its fun to hit crippled robots
i think at nsw its generally considered immobile to be totally dead. otherwise you can just tap out via shame. _________________ www.demon50s.com - Minimoto parts
http://www.youtube.com/user/HyzerGlen - Videoooozzz
Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:31 pm
Valen Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Posts: 4436
Location: Sydney
i think if your just spinning on the spot your out, after a drive is disabled unless you can move like TO by spinning the weapon whilst driving, or elbravo where it would turn tighter in reverse than forward your basically dead and the matches become very dull. _________________ Mechanical engineers build weapons, civil engineers build targets
Andrew "lost" this fight on the day apparently, I wasn't watching.
What should we do in this sort of case. Obviously styro has been disabled but can still "move" not really any control. If this isn't considered immobile you have two options if you are the winning driver.
Sit in the corner and wait out the time, or keep fighting and risk knocking yourself out.
The result is spinderella on its back still working but unable to move and styro is still spinning in place.
How did we want to rule on this because atm its a bit of a grey area. _________________ Steven Martin
Twisted Constructions
http://www.botbitz.com
Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:12 pm
seanet1310
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1265
Location: Adelaide
How about the fbs who spend half a min bouncing around on there heads befour flipping back over _________________ Remember to trust me, I am an Engineer.
Well reading the statement above it is up to the competitors to stop attacking and ask for countdown.
Hmmm so we usually don't really have a designated referee so how do we work this. Because the rules do sorta cover this. In the above case I would say that fight shouldn't have been terminated as spinderella did not stop attacking for > 5sec but should have gone to a judges decision as styro was not showing controlled translation.
Next time I will try and not run any robots so I can be ref and manage this a bit better but I really wanted to bump up numbers which is why I was semi responsible for ~5 -6 robots on the day. _________________ Steven Martin
Twisted Constructions
http://www.botbitz.com
Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:44 pm
Knightrous Site Admin
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Posts: 8511
Location: NSW
This is probably more of an issue with antweights with servo drives because they don't actually have enough speed/momentum to spin around like a larger/faster robot can with 1 wheel. With the match of Styrobot VS Spinderella, the simple fact is, one bot is still able to drive (limited), one has knocked itself out and cannot. A lucky break for one bot more then the other, but that's combat.
quote:Originally posted by Glen:
quote:Originally posted by Knightrous:
Losing one side of the drive and wriggling around the arena is still showing mobility, regardless if it's limited.
after all thats the premise a meltybrain bot is built around mwahahha.
Lol, Melty's can drive fairly fast when they work properly... I just haven't mastered the 'work properly' part in the arena yet _________________ https://www.halfdonethings.com/
Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:35 pm
kkeerroo Experienced Roboteer
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 1459
Location: Brisbane
From 2.8.1 of RFL match rules:
Orbiting a fixed location on the floor does not constiture “controlled translational
movement”. The referee shall decide if movement is “controlled”.
A one wheeled robot spinning in circles is not lateral movement. A one wheeled robot swinging across the floor is. The ref (or judge) needs to ask if the robot in question can move back to its square.
Random movement is not controlled (eg Badger upside down is not controlled as it can't deliberately move back to it's square). _________________ Get Some!!!
Secretary of the Queensland Robotics Sports Club inc.
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